30 cal 185g bullet choices

[FTRinTexas]

Of the following bullets, which are you guys finding work the best in your 600-1000 yard long range setups. Do any of these bullets not required sorting by weight or re-pointing the tips?
Berger 185 LRBT
Berger 185 Hybrid
Lapua 185 Scenar
Dietlein 185 ULD
JLK 180 LBT

 

[dave7mm]

The 185g Berger LRBT at 500 yards from a 300 SAUM.

The 210g Berger LRBT at 600 yards from the same 300 SAUM.

There not seating dept sensitive at all.
No weighing no pointing no checking.
Hope this helps.


dave

 

[Keith Glasscock]

Not all scenars are made equal...

From a drag perspective, the Lapua 185 Scenar is not very good for long range. If I remember correctly, it has a BC very similar to a 175 SMK, but you cant get as much velocity with it.

All the others are significantly better choices for long range. Swampy tells me that some of his customers are getting excellent results from the 180 LBT, but I am not equiped to test them against other choices. Don't get me wrong, unless I see something unseemly in my next couple of test sessions, I'll probably be shooting JLK bullets (just not the 180) next year.

 

[TonyR]

I think that the Berger 185HPLRBT is one of the most forgiving bullets I've ever worked with. They do seem to respond to sorting, meplat trimming and pointing, but the differences do not appear to be as noticable as with the 6mm and 7mm bullets I have used. They also appear to have a nice balance of BC and velocity without excessive pressures for F-T/R shooting.

 

[ohearchai]

keith, which of Steves bullets are leaning towards, have you had bad luck with the 180lbt.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

No, no , no I have not ever even had my hands on the 180's. If they perform anything like the 210's they will be awesome.

My problem is barrel length. I'm only running 26" next year and I can't safely get enough velocity in the 175-185 weight band to justify their (slightly) lower BC's. For mid-range (300-600) I have tested the 155 grain JLK's. They are a slippery little bullet that does perform right with or slightly better than the Berger 155.5 Fullbore. I haven't yet tested the Berbger 155 hybrid - the fullbore is a darn accurate little bullet that has given me some wallet groups that even a die-hard benchrest shooter would find acceptable.

If you can get them, the 210 LBT is a monster of ballistic performance. It also happens to be just short enough for me to stabilize it with my 11 twist barrel. FWIW, they are also cheaper than the equivalent Berger bullet (200 Hybrid).

Running the numbers, the 210 LBT is only 0.9" (10 mph wind) tighter than the 200 Hybrid @ 1000 yards. At my normal mid-range of 600, the difference isn't enough to even worry about. I would go with the 210 because I can get the required velocity (performance) at a lower pressure. I ran the 208 Amax last year and had great success, but the Berger and JLK bullets are a different animal from the precision standpoint.

 

[allen529]

I currently shoot the Dietlein 185's and they shoot around 30-31 minutes out at 1k with a 46.4 load of VV550 in Win cases and wolf primers. During a recent state championship I shot 14 straight with several X before missing a wind switch and dropping a point at 500 yrd with a very light load if varget.

I haven't ever had to clean up Jim's meplates and I load straight from the box. I can't say that about a certain yellow box brand everyone seems to use. I have not tried the JLKs yet but am planning on it when I move over to F-Open in 7mm.

A word of caution with VV550. Its temp sensitive and need if you s to be worked up for your conditions.

Allen

 

[Keith Glasscock]

JLK's meplats are as close to square as I've seen on a match bullet I've never seen a Dietlein though. I did measure the meplats on 5 of the JLK's once and found that they were all (best I could tell) the same. I agree that some of the yellow box bullets have variations in meplat squareness, but I've never been able to see any effect on paper - they shoot much less vertical than I do.

 

[ohearchai]

Keith, I am just finishing up the rifle I am going to use next year, I am only running a 28 inch AMU contoured barrel (1/11). I was worried about weight but all told I came in well under , well almost lb. I am thinking of getting another barrel in a slightly smaller contour or fluting one and try and push out to 32 inches. I have a lot of Steves 180lbts that I had planned on using, but I have had good success in the past with 155 scenars, so I bought some of the new 155 sierras and the new Berger 155.5 fullbores to try out, in the past I used RE-17 with the 210 Bergersbut only at 300yards, its quite a bullet, never tried Steves version. Allen529, going to test VV550, weather shouldnt be a problem up here in the NW, for a while anyways, except Eastern Washington in the summer.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

I'm seriously under weight as well... With all the lead I can hide in the stock, I'm still only 15.5 with the bipod and Leupold scope. I'm getting a Sinclair bipod (whenever it actually rolls out) and I'll still have enough weight to throw a Nightforce on top. The only reason not to change anything is performance. this rifle shot the top 4 scores in the club 600 yard f-class-ish league last summer. I've shot cleans at 600 on the F-class target during practice - it is a shooter! I'm saving the barrel right now so I can get through next year (hopefully) without shooting it out. I put 1500+ through it in the last year.

Careful with the RL-17 and VV550. From my testing (and others) it doesn't take a lot of temperature increase. Here in Oregon, we can shoot the first relay at 65 and the last at 95. What shot well at 800 can be blowing primers by the 1000 yard relay. Unfortunately, I've seen it done.

FWIW, I put ammo in a cooler with a hot pad while testing. That way, I can simulate a 120 degree day to test the safety of a load. I guess one could keep their ammo in a cooler on the line too...

With the 155.5's, both H4895 and Varget work well. I can hold 3/8" of vertical at 300 yards with Varget. I actually launch 210's with Varget as well. Surprisingly, I can only get about 50 fps more out of RL-17 (with 210's) before I see pressure signs.

 

[Laurie]

Surprisingly, I can only get about 50 fps more out of RL-17 (with 210's) before I see pressure signs. [BusDriver]

Use Lapua Palma small primer brass if you're not already doing so. Not only is the case-head stronger and stiffer, but the small primer seems to change the charge burn pattern in some way. Small primer brass + either Viht N550 or Alliant Re17 is the standard 210gn bullet combo in GB F/TR national level shooting. We don't have your temperature charges of course. I've found in my own testing off the bench that I can get significantly higher MVs with 210s with this brass, going past the point where leaking primers or even a blown primer appears with standard large primer cases.

For lighter bullets, including 185s, I don't see much if any advantage in using the small primer cases. Going back to the original question, I've long been impressed by the Berger 185 BTLR at distances up to 1,000yd. We've yet to see any .30 Hybrids in the UK, but I have high hopes for the heavier models especially the 185 and 200gn versions. Whether the 215 and 230 will work out in .308W is perhaps a little debatable, but is a very interesting question that I look forward to seeing resolved on the ranges.

Laurie,
York, England