30 cal 115-118g boat tail bullets

[LCazador]

Besides Eazor custom who makes 30 cal boat tail bullets in 115-118g?

 

[ALK]

BIBs

 

[Rdlningcltchdmpr]

I have not seen boat tail in that light of bullet's. It really offers no advantage at all. Boat tail design is only advantageous for long range with heavier bullet's. That's according to test that have been done. I shoot 112 bibs and 115 Berger.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I have not seen boat tail in that light of bullet's. It really offers no advantage at all. Boat tail design is only advantageous for long range with heavier bullet's. That's according to test that have been done. I shoot 112 bibs and 115 Berger.

Short range benchresters would argue that. Pretty much bt bullets only these days.

 

[Tommie]

Short range benchresters would argue that. Pretty much bt bullets only these days.

Dusty you know better than most that the short range bench rest crowd lost its spirit of innovation decades ago. The guns are near clones because “everybody knows that’s what wins matches”. Occasionally someone tries something new and, if successful, the mob runs to that combo like moths to a light.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Dusty you know better than most that the short range bench rest crowd lost its spirit of innovation decades ago. The guns are near clones because “everybody knows that’s what wins matches”. Occasionally someone tries something new and, if successful, the mob runs to that combo like moths to a light.

Theres a whole lot more testing going on than most on the outside realize. The masses see a bat win, they go get a bat. But the winners are trying something new every day- the masses just dont hear about it. If it doesnt beat the usual combo then nobody ever knows. Youd be surprised just how much gets tested on a daily basis. Bt bullets were highly scoffed on for quite a while. 20years ago we shot .350 aggs. Now you cant get in the top 20 without a teen agg. It has gotten to the point where you can pick out a bullet that was dropped on the floor or touched with lube on your fingers. Even the sand in your bags matters when you get to that level. It just sucks that people dont recognize what it took to get to the level we are at these days and the money that has been dumped into every little thing to stay there.

 

[LCazador]

Theres a whole lot more testing going on than most on the outside realize. The masses see a bat win, they go get a bat. But the winners are trying something new every day- the masses just dont hear about it. If it doesnt beat the usual combo then nobody ever knows. Youd be surprised just how much gets tested on a daily basis. Bt bullets were highly scoffed on for quite a while. 20years ago we shot .350 aggs. Now you cant get in the top 20 without a teen agg. It has gotten to the point where you can pick out a bullet that was dropped on the floor or touched with lube on your fingers. Even the sand in your bags matters when you get to that level. It just sucks that people dont recognize what it took to get to the level we are at these days and the money that has been dumped into every little thing to stay there.

Very well said Dusty! Innovation has never stopped. I was asked the other day by a newbie "does the trying out stuff and learning curve ever stop?". My answer was "only if you don't want shoot better than you shot today". You can go on admiring that beautiful group you shot today but if it doesn't get better tomorrow it will be yesterday's winning group! Yep over 80% of short range BR competitors are now shooting boat tails and winning.

 

[LCazador]

BIBs

BIB only makes flat base.

 

[RGRobinett]

Here's the deal with [thirty Cal.] BT bullets for point-blank BR competition: they are short on bearing surface. Most VfS competitors want minimal recoil, thus, short/light for caliber bullets.

Presuming a ZERO free-bore, 1.75 Deg. (1Deg.,45Min.) throat angle, and 7 caliber tangent ogive nose radius, a bullet made using the 0.925" long jackets (most 110-115 gr. bullets), seated to just contact the lands, will position the bullet base about 0.150" into the case - this with maximum [neck] length case (most will trim 0.010" short of maximum).

So, if we put a, say, 0.090" BT on the bullet, the "grip" shrinks to roughly 0.060" - not many people cotton to that. Then, typically, most people prefer the more common 1.5 Deg throat, which equates to LONGER yet "throat"! Then, if the nose radius is say, 8 calibers, there goes another 0.030" . . . Thus, for short/light BT thirty Cal. bullets, ANY amount of free-bore is a wreck.

For a thirty cal., BT bullet, intended to work with the [default] 1:17" twist barrels, we need to go to a 7, or, 8 caliber nose and use the 1.00" long jacket. "Been there, done that, bla,bla, bla . . . the BT bullets won NBRSA and IBS National Championships (Hunter Class) . . . but even after that, the users went back to FB bullets of the same weight(s). Regarding precision, I have found little, if any difference between FB and BT bullets: both are capable of top performance. The only possible advantage, is, maybe, alignment during seating.

One, "dirty little secret", regarding BT bullets: depending mostly upon caliber, for a given length/weight bullet, in order to maintain the same Sg (gyroscopic stability) as it's FB sibling, the addition of a BT, requires an additional 3/4" to 1.00" of twist rate! "Ya can't get there", by jacking the powder charge up .2-.3 Gr. - or, even ten grains! . RG

P.S. (additional means faster)

 

[P1ZombieKiller]

Short range benchresters would argue that. Pretty much bt bullets only these days.

I think this maybe true for 6ppc group shooters, however I don't know anyone shooting 30br for score that uses BT bullets.

 

[dcali]

For what it’s worth, I’ve run lots of numbers (computer calculations) on short range benchrest bullets and found that there is little if any difference in raw accuracy potential between boattail and flat base. These calculations have been tested and generally been reliable with longer bullets, so I have no reason to doubt them for short range bullets.

That said, there is more to it, as Randy laid out nicely above. The extent to which boattail bullets are winning is probably due to something other than inherent bullet quality/design. Perhaps better seating, different launch dynamics, or something of the sort.

That and $37,000 will get you a cup of Starbucks. Take it for what it’s worth- software is not infallible.

 

[JimPag]

Put it this way. I own 102K 30 cal match bullets from at least 15 different makers between 108 and 125 grains for SR score. I own exactly 20 bullets that are 114 grain boattails that a fellow competitor from NJ makes that he wanted me to try. It is safe to say that probably 99% of SR score shooters use flat base bullets.

 

[LCazador]

Gentlemen, thanks for all the input. Boat tail bullets have contributed to better scores in my personal experience in 30cal. UBR. I've been shooting flat base bullets for several years and this is a first for me since we started shooting UBR. Have a great Thanksgiving. Cheers!

 

[P1ZombieKiller]

Gentlemen, thanks for all the input. Boat tail bullets have contributed to better scores in my personal experience in 30cal. UBR. I've been shooting flat base bullets for several years and this is a first for me since we started shooting UBR. Have a great Thanksgiving. Cheers!

Can you elaborate a little more.... was the bullet the ONLY thing you changed? Did the load change when you changed bullets? seating depth?

 

[LCazador]

Yes the load changed along with seating depth etc. I couldn't expect the same load that I shot with 116 flat base to fit a 118g boat tail although I did try it. This is a new barrel with 500 rounds thru it and it has not produced any groups or scores that I was content with till I switched to boat tails. Keep in mind that my idea of a good score is four 66's for a perfect 264, ! I have to admit that our wind conditions here in Arizona are quite challenging and there no such thing as no wind even when there is no wind, LOL!

 

[LCazador]

Here's the deal with [thirty Cal.] BT bullets for point-blank BR competition: they are short on bearing surface. Most VfS competitors want minimal recoil, thus, short/light for caliber bullets.

Presuming a ZERO free-bore, 1.75 Deg. (1Deg.,45Min.) throat angle, and 7 caliber tangent ogive nose radius, a bullet made using the 0.925" long jackets (most 110-115 gr. bullets), seated to just contact the lands, will position the bullet base about 0.150" into the case - this with maximum [neck] length case (most will trim 0.010" short of maximum).

So, if we put a, say, 0.090" BT on the bullet, the "grip" shrinks to roughly 0.060" - not many people cotton to that. Then, typically, most people prefer the more common 1.5 Deg throat, which equates to LONGER yet "throat"! Then, if the nose radius is say, 8 calibers, there goes another 0.030" . . . Thus, for short/light BT thirty Cal. bullets, ANY amount of free-bore is a wreck.

For a thirty cal., BT bullet, intended to work with the [default] 1:17" twist barrels, we need to go to a 7, or, 8 caliber nose and use the 1.00" long jacket. "Been there, done that, bla,bla, bla . . . the BT bullets won NBRSA and IBS National Championships (Hunter Class) . . . but even after that, the users went back to FB bullets of the same weight(s). Regarding precision, I have found little, if any difference between FB and BT bullets: both are capable of top performance. The only possible advantage, is, maybe, alignment during seating.

One, "dirty little secret", regarding BT bullets: depending mostly upon caliber, for a given length/weight bullet, in order to maintain the same Sg (gyroscopic stability) as it's FB sibling, the addition of a BT, requires an additional 3/4" to 1.00" of twist rate! "Ya can't get there", by jacking the powder charge up .2-.3 Gr. - or, even ten grains! . RG

P.S. (additional means faster)

As always your are quite articulate on this subject. I appreciate and respect your opinion and input!
You make some of the best quality bullets. I'm just going in different direction on this boat tail thing! Cheers!