30-06 loading help

[Bob with the 66]

I decided my next hunting round reload would be for my 30-06 Ruger M77 bolt action rifle. I had best luck with Federal 180 Nosler partition factory loads for accuracy in the past. So I picked up some 180 Nosler partition bullets with H4831 powder, Winchester LR primers and New Winchester brass.
I prepped the brass (all my new cases measured right at 2.481") under the 2.494 listed in my reloading manuals.

So my question concerns OACL, my rifle seating depth is 3.311" so I planned on backing off the lans .020" for my hunting loads. Making my OACL 3.291".
My question is in my modern reloading second edition Richard Lee book it states the starting grains at 54.0 for H4831 the OACL at 3.300". Using this for my loads would give me only .011" jump. Is this safe for hunting loads and what would be recommended?
I do not what to create compressed loads and this manual has no load density (volume) percentage listed like my Nosler reloading guide.

Thank you from the newbie, Bob

 

[BCBRAD]

As long as your off the lands you will be fine, 0.011" is lots of the lands. H 4831 is a bit slow for the '06 ( you have to use more powder for the same pressure) . H 4350 powder seems to be a better one with the 165/180gr bullets. The reload manual states powder charge as compared to over all length because that what is remaining is the size of you combustion chamber.......seat deeper smaller volume, seat long begets larger volume.

 

[Bob with the 66]

So if I used H4350 powder and a charge size of 52.0 grains (+/- .1) with an OACL of 2.291" would be OK?

That would give a .020" jump.

Bob

 

[nastynatesfish]

Why are you not wanting a compressed load? Imr or h4350 is what I hear to be better 3006 powders. Also reloader 19 or 22. Depending on your bullet of course. Your going to have to work a load. The oal may not be the one your rifle likes same as the charge. You can go to hogdons reload site and it shows density there

 

[HTSmith]

OAL is not critical as long as you can satisfy these criteria:
-You stay off the lands a reasonable amount (for a hunting round). I consider .010" the minimum.
-You have enough of the bullet in the case to hold it securely. Shouldn't be an issue with a 180 Gr. bullet
-Your rounds feed reliably from the magazine. (Test in a safe area)
-Powder is not overly compressed. "Overly" is when the bullet pushes back out of the case.

You will likely have to compress H4831 to get even decent velocity with your bullets. I've actually had my best results from H4831 when the powder was compressed a little. It is not a safety issue as long as you are within load limits for your rifle.

There are not many animals in the world that you could not take with a 180 Gr. Nosler Partition driven at about 2700 fps or so.

(addendum: I agree with the other posters that H4350 would likely work better, but it is hard to get these days)

 

[Shynloco]

Bob,
For whatever its worth, I load for my son's M77 30-06 and use 168 Gr Bullets (Nosler, Hornady & Sierra) being pushed by around 53 gr (gotta test depending on bullet as to the load amount) of IMR4350 with an OAL of 3.220. Those loads give him excellent accuracy for up to 300 yds. If he wants greater distance, then I use the Sierra 175 gr bullets. Info only.

Alex

 

[Ringostar]

How are you measuring your COAL, and base to ogive? Various bullets will all have different lengths from tip to bearing surface. If your going to feed from a magazine, then that will limit your COAL. I would think that your going to have a lot of jump with a mag length round. Reducing your COAL below the recommended length doesn't determine how much bullet jump that you have. If you have a fired case from your chamber, that hasn't been resized yet. You can use it with one of you bullets do determine base to lands.

 

[Ringostar]

My 30-06 hunting loads don't include a 180gn bullet. I load SGK 150 and 165. Both are loaded to an overall length of 3.25, to fit mag length between my Weatherby Mark V and my sons Tikka. I just accepted that for length, then did round robin tests for charges. I load 50gn H4895 with the 150's for a nice local whitetail load. The 165's get 58gn of H4350, for a western muley load.

 

[Bob with the 66]

How are you measuring your COAL, and base to ogive? Various bullets will all have different lengths from tip to bearing surface. If your going to feed from a magazine, then that will limit your COAL. I would think that your going to have a lot of jump with a mag length round. Reducing your COAL below the recommended length doesn't determine how much bullet jump that you have. If you have a fired case from your chamber, that hasn't been resized yet. You can use it with one of you bullets do determine base to lands.

I did it two way, first way using a cleaning rod measuring to bolt surface and making a mark and then putting a bullet in my OAL gauge pushing it to the lans, putting the cleaning rod to the tip of the bullet and making a mark. measure the distance between the marks. Second way, I just used my OAL gauge pushing the bullet to the lans, locking the center rod, and measuring from tip to case bottom with a pair of calipers. Both way came to the same measurement of 3.311".

I'm still questioning what powder amount is safe using H4831?
Thank you all for the help,

 

[Bob with the 66]

Why are you not wanting a compressed load? Imr or h4350 is what I hear to be better 3006 powders. Also reloader 19 or 22. Depending on your bullet of course. Your going to have to work a load. The oal may not be the one your rifle likes same as the charge. You can go to hogdons reload site and it shows density there

I just want to make a safe load, isn't compressed loads unsafe?
Especially for someone new to reloading, I check and measure everything that is not the issue. It's just learning what is safe and what in dangerous in reloading is my concern.
Bob,

 

[Bob with the 66]

Bob,
For whatever its worth, I load for my son's M77 30-06 and use 168 Gr Bullets (Nosler, Hornady & Sierra) being pushed by around 53 gr (gotta test depending on bullet as to the load amount) of IMR4350 with an OAL of 3.220. Those loads give him excellent accuracy for up to 300 yds. If he wants greater distance, then I use the Sierra 175 gr bullets. Info only.

Alex

Based on my reloading book 165 grain , IMR4350 min OAL is stated at 3.230". So your are loading .010" under their requirement, but also 1.0 grain of poser less, so is this safe? Your load could be compressed, how do you determine what is safe and what is not?
Bob,

 

[logger3006]

I have not messed with 4831, but I load pounds of IMR 4350 in 30-06.
If your manual has a C after the charge weight its a tested safe compressed load. My 178 Amax load is 56.5 gr IMR 4350 I went as far as 58 gr with no pressure, both are compressed loads. As far as seating depth 11 off the lands is fine. I would do a seating test to see where your rifle likes it. Always work back from closest to the lands.
Never work up to jamming. Pressure off the lands can increase once you get to the lands with the same charge weight.
BTW you would be in a better place with the 4350's and 180-200gr bullets. If you want to reallly speed it up work up to 57-58grns. Watching for pressure closely with some RL 17.

 

[Ringostar]

Hodgdon lists 54gn starting to 60gn max for H4831 with 180gn SGK. They don't list it for anything under 175gn bullets. Your partitions should be fine starting in that same range and working up slow.

 

[dedogs]

Bob, There are a couple of things to look at here.

1 If the federal ammo shot well in your rifle with 180 Nos. Partitions why not just copy the col of a loaded round (of the Federal)
2 Your trim length that you state is .003 under minimum length and when you fireform your brass to your chamber they may get shorter still.

3 The nosler book shows a maximum load of 4831 to be 62g with their 180g Partition. Their starting load is 58g so whatever manual you are working out of is a little off.

4 You state that you are working with a Ruger M77 and it's been my experince that if you get anywhere near the lands with an M77 (-.010 or less) your loaded cartridge won't fit in the magazine. Lot's of freebore in the Rugers I've played with. (I think they are tired of getting sued)

So if they shot well in your rifle why not just go with the Federal factory seating depth and go from there. You can still play with the seating depth from there but at least you will have a starting point. Personally if I was using this as strictly a hunting rifle I would measure my magazine length and subtract about .010, load it and go.

As far as your powder charge is concerned you will be plenty safe at 54 grains. I, however would try like heck to find some 4350 as it has always shot the best in the 30/06's I've loaded for.

 

[Shynloco]

Bob,
For whatever its worth, I load for my son's M77 30-06 and use 168 Gr Bullets (Nosler, Hornady & Sierra) being pushed by around 53 gr (gotta test depending on bullet as to the load amount) of IMR4350 with an OAL of 3.220. Those loads give him excellent accuracy for up to 300 yds. If he wants greater distance, then I use the Sierra 175 gr bullets. Info only.

Alex

Based on my reloading book 165 grain , IMR4350 min OAL is stated at 3.230". So your are loading .010" under their requirement, but also 1.0 grain of poser less, so is this safe? Your load could be compressed, how do you determine what is safe and what is not?
Bob,

Bob,
I haven't a clue where you are getting your numbers, but I primarily use the Sierra Manual that shows they used a COAL of 3.285 in their test rifle and the spread of powder for IMR 4350 (which I use) is 48.8 (2500 fps) - a max load of 56.0 (2900 fps). I also look at the Hornady Manual when using their bullets. So my load of 53 gr (2750 fps) is NOWAY a "compressed load." You can see the powder alright when looking down the neck of the casing, but the bullets I seat are NOT compressing the powder or touching it. And that was developed through testing (various loads in this particular rifle)as well as ALWAYS CHECKING FOR SIGNS OF PRESSURE as I go. And keep in mind, this is for a hunting rifle and NOT any of my Benchrest Rifles that I load for and shoot for ultimate accuracy. Hope that answers your question.

Alex

 

[sbranden]

I was able to find tremendous accuracy for a friend's 30-06 using 180 Nosler Partition bullets seated to about .010 off, with a charge of 59.0 H4831sc and CCI 250 primers. Bumping up to the hotter primers was the key to shrinking group size.

I think 4350 or even 4064 is the way to go with 150-165's, but 4831 or Reloder 22 seemed best for the 180 class bullets, at least in the Tikka -06 I was working with.

(of course there should be no difference between H4831 and H4831sc, I just prefer the short cut version of this powder)


Stephen

 

[gaboon]

What about the old stand by imr 4895. Good results with it.

 

[Bob with the 66]

I really appreciate the help and input. I'm new to reloading so originally I was hoping on using the Nosler guide information at first because I planned on using Nosler partition bullets. I'm still confused about my OACL of 3.291" (3.311 chamber size minus .020" off lans for hunting load guideline).

If the guide states a tested OACL of 3.33" using 53.5 grains H4831 at 88% load density volume. Then if I loaded 53.5grains of H4831 but at a OACL of 3.291", wouldn't I be compressing the load by .039"? How do I know this is safe and not creating a compressed load?

Am I wrong to putting to much worry in charge size?

Sorry for all the questions,
Bob,

 

[logger3006]

I really appreciate the help and input. I'm new to reloading so originally I was hoping on using the Nosler guide information at first because I planned on using Nosler partition bullets. I'm still confused about my OACL of 3.291" (3.311 chamber size minus .020" off lans for hunting load guideline).

If the guide states a tested OACL of 3.33" using 53.5 grains H4831 at 88% load density volume. Then if I loaded 53.5grains of H4831 but at a OACL of 3.291", wouldn't I be compressing the load by .039"? How do I know this is safe and not creating a compressed load?

Am I wrong to putting to much worry in charge size?

Sorry for all the questions,
Bob,

You'll be fine, Just look at the brass for pressure signs, Hogdon says you don't get a compressed load until you get to 56.8 gr.IMR 4831 at 3.30" coal with a 180 game king I would guess they are close to the same length.

 

[manitou210]