.284 FPS question

[dragman]

I have been doing a lot of load development. I have tried three different powders and this is what I have so far:

H4831SC - Started at 53 grains and worked up sweet spot seems to be 54.5-54.7 grains load opened up after that so I didn't keep going. speed is too slow though only looking at 2780fps but shoots awesome.

H4350 - I started with 51 grains and worked up from there I hit 53.2 grains and it seemed to stay very tight the hole way up the ladder. I can't get it over 53.2 without a sticky bolt so I am not going any higher. Problem is weather got really rainy and I had to put the chrono away after I was at 52.3 grains it was shooting 2895fps.

RL 17 - I have loads from 51 grains - 53.9 grains but haven't shot them yet.

Question is wonder what the H4350 is doing speed wise with the 53.2 grains??? I was figuring it would be 2940ish but wonder what you all think? I am not gonna be able to shoot that load again til next week and it's driving me nutz!

I am hoping tomorrow I can get the RL17 to shoot up around 2950-2975.

Gun - Bat model B with a Bartline 30.5" barrel 9 twist shooting 180 bergers for all the loads.

 

[dragman]

Started shooting the RL 17 today and only got up to 52.5 grains but it's going 2904fps. Looks like I am only gonna get this gun up to around 2925-2935. Any other powders that I should try or just role with one of the loads that I am already shooting??

 

[Ecomeat]

I have only just started work on a load for 180 VLDs myself , and have stuck to 168gr VLDs till now as I broke in a new barrel (and calibre)
I shot my 284 with RE 17 in a BAT Model M, 29.5" Maddco barrel, shooting 180 gr Berger VLD's. on 23rd November shooting late afternoon, temp approx 27 deg C. using MagnetoSpeed Chrony

50.0 gr, average was 2810 fps
50.5 gr, average was 2880 fps
51.0 gr, average was 2938 fps
51.5 gr, average was 2943 fps

BUT.......on 8th Dec, on a slightly warmer day , maybe 30 deg C
50.0 gr averaged 2785 fps (25 fps slower)
50.5 gr averaged 2818 fps (62 fps slower)
No pressure signs at all.......smooth bolt lift, and primers are fine. I was looking for speed nodes around 2700 and 2820 fps, so stopped at 51.5 gr on 23rd Nov as I didnt need to go any higher.
Now however will have to do it again, and hopefully hit the 2820 mark between 51.0 and 51.5 gr RE17.
Next step will be to try to replicate results using our Aussie ADI 2209 (your H4350) which is said to be much more stable and less effected by temperature.

I understand Bryan Litz's match load is 50.7 gr H4350/2209 for 2825 fps and describes it as a "moderate" load.
I dont think you should have much problem getting 2950 using RE17, although 50 to 50.5 gained me 70 fps, whilst the 51 to 51.5 only gained me 5 fps, which would seem to support the things I have seen written on the internet re RE17 showing higher pressure signs really quickly.
Post your results so I can follow your progress, please.
Tony

 

[DennisH]

I have a current thread going on my 284. I am currently trying to find a load as well.

I am having my doubts about getting in the 2,900 range. I am around 2,800fps and I am going to try a few more tenths and see what happens. I started getting a sticky bolt at 55.7grns using 4831sc.

I am going to try RL17 as well, but as stated above, it get's warm very quick.

The way it looks, I might have to settle around the 2,800+ range mainly because my ES & SD are "very" low.

You can look up my thread. There are some interesting comments that may help.

I understand many are staying in the 2,800 range and are very happy.

Also, I was testing using Federal Brass. I have just necked up some 6.5x284 brass. I am hoping the Lapua brass will hold up better than the Federal using a hotter load.

JMO

 

[dragman]

Just finished shootng all my RL17 loads. Best shooters was a tie

52.5 grains @ 2900.2 average
53.2 grains @ 2975.4 average

I have no pressure or sticky bolt i stopped at 53.5 grains because groups begain to open after 53.2. I am very please hope it verifies next weekend.
Conditions 55 degrees with 94% humidity.

 

[DennisH]

Just finished shooting all my RL17 loads. Best shooters was a tie

52.5 grains @ 2900.2 average
53.2 grains @ 2975.4 average

I have no pressure or sticky bolt i stopped at 53.5 grains because groups begin to open after 53.2. I am very please hope it verifies next weekend.
Conditions 55 degrees with 94% humidity.

dragman, what barrel length and action do you have?

I hope I can get 2,900fps with RL17 and still maintain my ES & SD!

 

[dragman]

Bat model B
30.5" bartline 9 twist barrel
Extreme spread with all the RL 17 was less than 20fps.

 

[DennisH]

@ 55.3 I have a ES of 7+ and a SD of 5.00

It seems like the 284 is famous for having low ES & SD

 

[Ecomeat]

I will be keen for Dragman to report back with a comment on his primer pockets, with the "warmish" loads that he is using.
There is a good thread on our No 1 Aussie F Class site (www.ozfclass.com) with input from some very experienced and talented shooters ( a number of whom have won prestigious Queens events, and who will be in the US next year for the World Championships) and it seems that many have had, or have got, problems with primer pockets expanding with the 284, but mainly (only ?) with 180 gr Bergers.
The thread is here http://ozfclass.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4209
Here in Australia it is impossible at present to source Winchester brand 284 Win cases, and the Lapua 6.5 x 284 have also been a bit erratic. This is what a big proportion of 284 Win F Class shooters are using.
Norma are also impossible to source at present
Rgds
Tony

 

[DennisH]

it seems that many have had, or have got, problems with primer pockets expanding with the 284, but mainly (only ?) with 180 gr Berger

Tony, which bullet do they prefer? Or do they just use the 180 grns?

Dennis

 

[Ecomeat]

it seems that many have had, or have got, problems with primer pockets expanding with the 284, but mainly (only ?) with 180 gr Berger

Tony, which bullet do they prefer? Or do they just use the 180 grns?

Dennis

Dennis,
The 180 Hybrid is probably the most sought after ,but a good number still shooting the 180 VLD's. Because demand has exceeded supply all over the world, Australia just can't get enough supply of the really popular Berger and Lapua products and virtually everything is on "back order".
We are such a small market compared to the entire USA and Europe, that we are getting used to waiting.
I personally decided to get a 180 gr load going with the VLD, and not the Hybrid, coz I figured the hype around the hybrids would see them in short supply for quite some time and I didn't want to be disappointed. I have got the 168 going fairly well, and will only use the 180 VLDs in bad wind and at what we call open Prize Meetings
Undoubtedly the release of the Hybrids has been a pretty successful marketing success for Berger with the 7mm version virtually impossible to source "Downunder"
Tony

 

[DBailey]

@ 55.3 I have a ES of 7+ and a SD of 5.00

It seems like the 284 is famous for having low ES & SD

I'm not trying to bad mouth or bring anyone down, but with only three to five shots across the chronograph you really don't have enough information to accurately predict ES and SD. We have seen it double when going from 10 to 20 shots.
If you want to know how your load will preform at an F-Class match you should fire at least a couple of foulers and then 20 across the chronograph.
It will probably make a difference in the powder and load you choose.

 

[dragman]

@ 55.3 I have a ES of 7+ and a SD of 5.00

It seems like the 284 is famous for having low ES & SD

I'm not trying to bad mouth or bring anyone down, but with only three to five shots across the chronograph you really don't have enough information to accurately predict ES and SD. We have seen it double when going from 10 to 20 shots.
If you want to know how your load will preform at an F-Class match you should fire at least a couple of foulers and then 20 across the chronograph.
It will probably make a difference in the load you choose.

I do agree that it isn't the end all, It's a place to start if the ES is over 20 it's not worth going forward IMHO thats what I keep track even this early in the development. I don't shoot F-Class what I shoot I max at 10 shots. The numbers I posted are the preliminary ones that I got since I don't load more than 5 rounds for group testing. The next round of testing with be back to back 5 shot groups with the better loads. I Chrono every round through the gun unless I am hunting or at the match and I record them so by the time I finish a load I have 40-50 rounds of that load over my chrono. Now I also record temp, and humidity etc to take that into consideration. I like to know what my finished load is doing from a completely clean barrel to a completely dirty one from a cold bore shot to a hot barrel at the end of a string of shot.

 

[Nowind0]

I have shot H4831SC for years in a .284. I think you are giving up to quickly. Also don't push them as hard as you can. They like to fly around 2875-2890 fps out of a 30" barrel. Charge varies greatly by barrel.

 

[dragman]

My gun shoots H4831SC awesome! but one problem is if I push it over 2750fps they just don't group really well. that is why I moved on to other powders.