280 AI brass Problem

[pburr]

Keep updating Ken. I'm interested in this because I am in the process of building a 280AI myself as an F-Class rig, but have my own reamer on order from Mr. Kiff. I dont know how they are going to correct the oversize without setting it back and re-reaming. If its only overzided near the base, they wont have to set it back too far at least. You will lose a little barrel length, but nothing drastic.

 

[SeabeeKen]

Thats what Shilen said. If the the oversize is small enough they would set it back. Otherwise, they would make a new barrel. I'm still waiting to hear back from them. After waiting 2 months for the barrel to be made, I'm not at all happy with this set back. I can't believe they would let a barrel out of the shop like that. Looks like they would check the chamber dimensions before it leaves the shop as part of QC. I'm just glad the case didn't rupture. I'll post an update once I hear from Shilen. Depending on how this goes will determine whether I order my 243 AI barrel from them this fall.

 

[pburr]

Sounds good. I hope you get it back and it's a thumper...!!! What is your intended purpose for the rifle if you dont mind me asking? I have high hopes for mine to give me a little working room over a standard 280 and 284.

I just got some Nosler 280AI brass and Redding dies so I think I will be full length sizing and sending Mr. Kiff a dummy just to make sure the reamer is based on the Nosler AI case and not a fireformed 280.

 

[expiper]

Ken,,as you are learning there is m'uch more to a chamber than headspace,,,,the reamer/chamber needs to work in concert with the p'arent brass and the resize die,,,Kiff knows all about it and you should get one of his reamers for your new and future chambers,,,shilen wil use your reamer if you supply it....I dont know what they hav but hav found most shops/smith/manufactures have out dated/antique/worn out (a worn reamer will wallow and make a fat chamber!!--remember they hav cut dozens of chambers with their reamer--yours just one!!) reamers that are NOT compatable with modern SAMMI resize dies and brass...i had Kiff make me a reamer with a sh;ort neck and same bod;y dims. as 280 AI so that I can use Lapua or WW 30-06 brass...that way I dont hav to monkey around with Rem or even Nozler/Norma stuff that is inferior...It seems the problem that most people (deer/elk hunters) never see with 280 AI's are because they dont load the brass more than 2 or 3 times ,,whereas competetive shooters with 280 AI's shoot 100 or more rounds a day and the ctg brass must be loaded several times...this is when the resize issues rear their ugly head,,,things have to work in co;ncert,,,the chamber should be no more than .003" bigger anywhere than the parent brass,and the resize die should be aprox the same size as the parent brass,,,that way the brass expands .003 and then relaxes .001 to .002 bigger than originall...then is reszed down to o'riginal then springs bak .001 and the brass is not overworked or hardened beyond its elastic limit,,I have a 7mm/07 ((my .280 AI variant ) that you just shoot em and load em like a 6mm BR,just open-shut-open-shut on the bolt..you dont have to think abput anything but what is going on between you and the target,,,,.just my 2 cents,,,,Roger

 

[SeabeeKen]

I'm very well aware that there is more to a chamber than headspace. I've been loading for over 39 years for 30 different cartridges. Many of my rifles print jagged one hole groups at 100 yds. I don't believe that my chamber issue is due to a worn out reamer. All dimensions are right in line with the reamer print except the very rear of the chamber. A worn out wallowing reamer would affect other areas of the chamber than just the rear 3/8" of the chamber. I agree with Shilen when they said it was due to improper polishing. I'm still waiting to hear from them regarding the fix. I may contact Mr Kiff for a reamer for my 243 AI this fall. For now, I'll stick with Shilen on the 280 AI and Nosler's custom brass. This is going to be a long range hunting rifle and not a 1000 yd benchrest rifle although accuracy is foremost here. I very much appreciate all the input from everyone, it has been a great help thru this. So far, the brass is fine and the chamber is the problem.

 

[expiper]

Ken,,I apologize if I it seemed as though I was implying that you didnt know what you were doing,,,on the contrary your realization/diagnosis of the problem shows loading/shooting skill/experience...I try to post and give info to the myraid types/skill levels of shooters/reloaders that follow our trials and tribulations here on this internet site,,,,I hope your new chamber turns out fine..pleas keep us posted there are many eyes looking at your results....Roger

 

[SeabeeKen]

No offense taken Roger. I completely understand. The rifle was a Savage 270. I've always wanted a 280 Ackley so I decided to convert the 270. I want to hunt some mule deer and elk out west when I retire so I thought I would go ahead and get ready. Even with that chamber being as it was, the rifle still shot a group of .45" at 100 yds with 57 grains of H4831SC topped by a Barnes 145 gr LRX bullet. I hope that tightening up the back of the chamber will improve that some. My biggest concern was rupturing a case and over working the brass during sizing. I neck size so the cases were gonna be a problem chambering with the bulge mainly on one side of the case. Besides, for $500 I expect the barrel to be right. Thanks again to all. I'll post as soon as I hear from Shilen.

 

[SeabeeKen]

As I write this, my barrel is on the lathe. They are trying to set the chamber back enough to clean up the chamber. They should know something by the end of the day. I'll post as soon as I know something.

 

[SeabeeKen]

Heard from Shilen. They moved the chamber forward .050 and it wasn't quite enough to clean it up. As he said, "almost just isn't good enough". They are making a new barrel. They are completely committed to making this right, just as they said they would. This is a completely honest company committed to accuracy. I'll post the results of the load testing once I get it back. The loads are ready and waiting.

 

[pburr]

Well, I guess thats good news at least.....!!!! I'm glad they recognized the defect and decided to give you a new barrel instead of just chopping the old one and giving it back which might have given you a loss in velocity.

 

[SeabeeKen]

I'm not sure what to believe anymore. On Feb 26 Shilen told me that my barrel couldn't be fixed and that "a new barrel is being pulled from the line". I emailed again last night (Mar 11) asking what the status of my barrel was and was told that there were no .284 diameter select match barrels available and that as a soon a one becomes available that it will be rushed thru contouring and chambering depts. Hmm.

 

[Rtheurer]

Hi Ken. I dont doubt the reply as most barrel makers do runs of specific calibers. this week might be .224 then next week or so is 6mm then next month will be .25 cal then 6.5 and 7mm. You might have just missed there run on 7mm is all. Talking to Dan Lilja and Rock Creek when I visited both of there shops around early 2000's both did that exact same practice when drilling rifle barrels.
Might be a simple matter of timing. Sorry to hear you may have just missed the run on 7mm's.

RussT

 

[SeabeeKen]

I suspected that but wasn't sure how things worked in the shop. When I was told one was being pulled from the line I took that to mean that there was one ready to be worked. Oh well, all I can do is wait and see. As long as it is right, I'll be happy.

 

[SeabeeKen]

They tell me today that the barrel is ready for chambering and should ship in 3-4 weeks.

 

[pburr]

Good news.....just in time for summer too.

I'm still waiting on my barrels but my reamer should be coming soon though!

 

[SeabeeKen]

Rifle is back. This time the chamber is absolutely perfect with no issues at all. The rifle prints jagged one hole groups at 100 using H-4831SC.

 

[pburr]

Excellent news...!!! What bullet are you using with it?

I got my reamer back from PT&G but still waiting on a barrel. Thats all thats holding me up from getting started now. The only thing about this reamer is that Dave put a .029 FB on it and I cant understand why when I talked to him over the phone for like 20 minutes and it was agreed to have it at .188...!!! Guess I can just have it set back a little further with a throating reamer once the chamber is cut.

 

[SeabeeKen]

WOW!! huge difference in the FB. My rifle is a hunting rifle. I'm working up loads for Barnes 145 gr LRX bullets for hunting out west and 120 gr TTSX for hunting in this area. So far, very pleased with the 145 gr but cant seem to get the 120's to shoot as well. Too much FB and can't get the 120's out close enough to the rifling. I've got a few other powders on the way so it isn't over yet.