Specific questions for a 223 pushing 69 gr Sierra Matchkings. I have a 1-9 twist 26" heavy barreled model 12 Savage in 223 set in a McMillan stock and I'm looking for facts (mixed with opinions I'm sure) about the maximum effective range for this barrel length/twist rate/bullet combo. By maximum effective range I mean how far before it goes transonic and become unstable? I know that is purely dependent upon the speed of the load obviously. I have Varget, H4895, IMR 8208XBR, H335 and H322 on hand and am going to try and find the best speed/accuracy combo with this set up and I'm wondering if one of you fellow shooters has about the same if not identical set up running the same bullet and if you do what have you found to be the maximum effective range of this combination and what type of speeds are you able to attain? Looking to try this out for some fun shooting at steel, some longer range coyote sniping as well as some longer range Prairie Dogging. Thanks.
26" 223 - 69 gr Sierra Matchkings
- Thread starter IA_shooter
- Start date
Maximum range really depends on your load and atmospheric conditions. Assuming 2950fps which usually isn't max; but probably realistic load it'll be going transonic at 900ish yards. Humidity, altitude, temperate all come in to adjust that number. I'm at 5000ft; and with that load, it's looking like 1000y is doable in the summer.
For hunting range I'll let others chime in.
-Mac
For hunting range I'll let others chime in.
-Mac
Before I swapped barrels, I shot thousands of SMK 69 gr bullets out of a 1:9 twist 26" barrel. The most accurate and reliable load was with a rather mild charge of IMR 8208 XBR, only 92.4% of published maximum. That gave me a MV of just under 2700 fps. According to my dope, that makes the MV 1288 fps at 600 yards. I shot it once at a 600 yd F-TR match when I was considering entering that section of the sport and didn't do bad for my first try. Of course, shooting 69's is no way to win F-class matches and it didn't take me long to build a dedicated F/TR gun.
As you no doubt know, you don't have the best long range gear. On the other hand it will get out to 600 yards IF you can live with greater than a 10 foot drop from your 100 yard zero. That's a lot and I personally would not want to be wounding any furry little creatures by trying to kill something at 600 yards with the recipe I used to shoot at paper just for fun at 100 yards. Naturally, there are so called sportsman who don't care about wounding animals. You'll have to decide for yourself how you feel about making long range shots on animals with less than suitable equipment.
By the way, if you have a smart phone, there are plenty of ballistic apps which will give you the information you asked about. Or, if you have a computer, you can find plenty of free ballistic programs for free.
As you no doubt know, you don't have the best long range gear. On the other hand it will get out to 600 yards IF you can live with greater than a 10 foot drop from your 100 yard zero. That's a lot and I personally would not want to be wounding any furry little creatures by trying to kill something at 600 yards with the recipe I used to shoot at paper just for fun at 100 yards. Naturally, there are so called sportsman who don't care about wounding animals. You'll have to decide for yourself how you feel about making long range shots on animals with less than suitable equipment.
By the way, if you have a smart phone, there are plenty of ballistic apps which will give you the information you asked about. Or, if you have a computer, you can find plenty of free ballistic programs for free.
We shoot even lighter .224 bullets to 600 yards from slower twist barrels. From 200 yard zeros, we usually come up 12-14 minutes at 600 yards. These bullets are fun to shoot F-Class matches and bang steel with. You'll learn a lot, but not really be competitive.
Shooters who are new to shooting at 600-1000 yards will learn to read the wind better by spending some time shooting lighter .224 bullets at 600 yards than those who start off with high BC bullets. Once you've peaked out your potential with the lighter bullets, moving to heavier bullets (requires faster twist) will improve your scores.
I'm enjoying berger 70vlds at 600; my 24" barrel is happy at 2850. Good argument for mag fed vs. a faster twist and 77s; though no competition once you go 75+gr vld or 80s.
Again depending on altitude; you may try a 75gr, bthp, amax, vld or even the Berger 73 may perform well your rifle.
69 SMK if driven fast enough is competitive on paper; but in practice, well that's all up to the shooter.
-Mac
Again depending on altitude; you may try a 75gr, bthp, amax, vld or even the Berger 73 may perform well your rifle.
69 SMK if driven fast enough is competitive on paper; but in practice, well that's all up to the shooter.
-Mac
Bullets do not become unstable when moving below the speed of sound. If they did, there would be no long range shooting.
Been lurking for a few years now, but decided to throw my two cents in here because I'm shooting the same load and barrel/action combination you are writing about.
My model 12 BVSS in 223 with 9 twist 26 in SS barrel shot the 69's over 8208 very well at my range all the way out to 750 yds. Hit the steel every time even in moderate crosswinds.
Mine were going 3100 fps if memory serves, and according to Hornaday ballistics calculator would still be super sonic at 1000, but only barely. More likely trans sonic, depending upon temps.
Then I switched to 69 tipped MatchKings. Much better BC and much flatter shooting. They preferred Varget out of my barrel, but yours might like something else. Just gotta try it and see how it fits. They hold speed much better.
For some easy reading; http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/
and here: http://www.jbmballistics.com/ballistics/lengths/lengths.shtml#Hornady
My model 12 BVSS in 223 with 9 twist 26 in SS barrel shot the 69's over 8208 very well at my range all the way out to 750 yds. Hit the steel every time even in moderate crosswinds.
Mine were going 3100 fps if memory serves, and according to Hornaday ballistics calculator would still be super sonic at 1000, but only barely. More likely trans sonic, depending upon temps.
Then I switched to 69 tipped MatchKings. Much better BC and much flatter shooting. They preferred Varget out of my barrel, but yours might like something else. Just gotta try it and see how it fits. They hold speed much better.
For some easy reading; http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/
and here: http://www.jbmballistics.com/ballistics/lengths/lengths.shtml#Hornady
I'm interested in the same question, although my 1:9 barrel is on a Ruger Hawkeye.
I definitely agree on learning the wind, and you should shoot in the wind when you can - and not avoid it. Those with a scope will generally just offset for the wind and drive on. When using iron sights ( yes at 600 and 1000 yds) you have to have a sight picture in the middle and turn the knobs for the wind, mirage, light, and do not have the luxury of shading the crosshairs offset a bit. and that teaches the value of wind velocity and direction.
Well put
I think brian litz might disagree with this but I could be wrong.
If you ever shoot matches where the targets go from 200 yds to 1200 yards, with the same 308 rifle, you will see that there is no point when the bullets become "unstable". At 1200 yds, the 175 SMK is traveling at ~ 900 fps.
Don't take my word for it... just go do it.
http://www.accurateshooter.com/ballistics/transonic-effects-on-bullet-stability-bc/
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...bout-transonic-bullet-stability-and-accuracy/
so litz is wrong? I trust his judgement and all of his testing he has done
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...bout-transonic-bullet-stability-and-accuracy/
so litz is wrong? I trust his judgement and all of his testing he has done
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26.0 grains of Winchester 748 works well with the 69 grain bullet. Never stretched mine out as far as possible, just don't have a need to shoot that far. But, with known confirmed come ups it has been the end of many a woodchuck out to 500 yards or so. I don't see why it wouldn't work out there further.
k80skeet
Silver $$ Contributor
I have a .223 LRPV Right bolt Left port 1 in 9 twist with a 12X42 Nightforce BR Np-2DD Reticle sitting on top. The 69 gr. Sierra Match King are my bullet of choice. With 25.0gr W748 Primer CCI-BR4 or Federal 205M either primer work the same. 5 shot groups in the 1's the 70gr Berger with the same load is almost as good. The 73gr Berger is awful good too with 24.0 W748. I have owned a lot of .223 Savages with 1 in 9 twist never seen that didn't shoot those 69gr SMK's in to one tiny little hole with 25.0 of W748. I did extensive an all of them and that was the best I found. That LRPV will shot every bullet from 40gr to 77gr under 1/2' but the 69 sierra's and the 70gr Berger will shot in the 1's every time if you do your part. Brass I use Remington and Lapua both shoot the same no difference. Barrel is stock Savage just how it came out of the box.
I shoot several 223's but not competitively, I hunt with them. There are fast barrels and slow barrels, but in the end the 223 isn't a long range hunting caliber. You will be able to kill a Pdog at a much longer distance than a coyote. There are a lot of opinions on how far or how much energy is needed to kill something but it all comes down to the ability of the shooter to put a bullet where it needs to be put in less than perfect conditions from field positions.
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