243 Win Reloading

[strut64]

I am setting up for 243 Win reloading. Want to try a Lee collet die instead of a conventional Full length die. I have never tried a collet die. Would like to hear any commentary, good or bad.

 

[dminn1]

I am setting up for 243 Win reloading. Want to try a Lee collet die instead of a conventional Full length die. I have never tried a collet die. Would like to hear any commentary, good or bad.

I run the Lee Collet die with 3 different size mandrels to control neck tension along with a Redding body die for shoulder bump. I run this in .243, .308, and 6.5 Creedmoor and am very pleased with the results. If you think concentricity matters you wont get straighter ammo than that produced on a Lee Collet die in my experience.

 

[Someoldguy]

I run the Lee Collet die with 3 different size mandrels to control neck tension along with a Redding body die for shoulder bump. I run this in .243, .308, and 6.5 Creedmoor and am very pleased with the results. If you think concentricity matters you wont get straighter ammo than that produced on a Lee Collet die in my experience.

Did you order the mandrels or make your own?

 

[strut64]

Don't know anything about mandrells. What comes as stock size? And as far as body die, doesn't the die get the shoulder right?

 

[243winxb]

Lee collet die

Some tips from Mr Lee http://leeprecision.net/support/index.php?/Knowledgebase/List/Index/13/product-support

 

[dminn1]

Did you order the mandrels or make your own?

I order one of the under size mandrels from Lee which will usually yield about .002 neck tension depending on how you run the die. I also order an extra regular size mandrel and polish it to my other desired size, which is usually somewhere in the .003 neck tension range. The stock mandrels usually give me around .001 neck tension.

 

[Someoldguy]

I order one of the under size mandrels from Lee which will usually yield about .002 neck tension depending on how you run the die. I also order an extra regular size mandrel and polish it to my other desired size, which is usually somewhere in the .003 neck tension range. The stock mandrels usually give me around .001 neck tension.

Good to know those can be ordered seprately.
Thanks.
Sorry to the OP for any thread drift.

 

[dminn1]

Don't know anything about mandrells. What comes as stock size? And as far as body die, doesn't the die get the shoulder right?

The Lee Collet die only reduces the neck diameter of a fired round so you can seat a bullet and fire it again. It does not reduce any other dimensions of a fired case. There are an abundance of threads on this forum that can give you good info on the pros and cons of neck sizing only vs full length resizing of fired brass. The discussions can get quite heated at times about which is best but I will only say keep an open mind when reading and do your own testing and come to your own conclusions about which is best.

The Lee die works buy squeezing the neck of a fired case over a mandrel with the fingers of a collet. The diameter of the mandrel used determines the amount the neck diameter is reduced and the amount of grip your case will have on a bullet that is seated in it. The stock size will usually give you about a .001 difference in measured neck o.d. between a resized case without a bullet and a resized case with a bullet seated. If you want more grip than this you can order a smaller mandrel or you can polish the stock mandrel to your desired diameter using a drill and some emery cloth.

 

[dminn1]

Good to know those can be ordered seprately.
Thanks.
Sorry to the OP for any thread drift.

Midway USA usually keeps a good supply of these in stock. I think the last one I ordered was $4 and some change.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

 

[Frankr]

I played around with lee collet dies some 25 years ago when I first started into higher priced varmint rifles that lead into bench rest rifle. I had them in just about every cartridge I had..Don't waste your time or money. But hey sometime things are best learned on your own. I doubt you would see any accuracy gain over a FL expander ball die with good brass and it will just cause all kind of headspace issues like three cases may bolt in ok and one will be harder and one may barley go in. You will gain your best accuracy with a good fit die that matches your chamber and FL sized with that die as everything will be more consistent. Ah they are something to tinker with and that is all you will do with one is tinker and hey you might get along with five cases and do ok. But what are you going to do with five cases just tinker around.

 

[Laurie]

It does not reduce any other dimensions of a fired case. There are an abundance of threads on this forum that can give you good info on the pros and cons of neck sizing only vs full length resizing of fired brass. The discussions can get quite heated at times about which is best but I will only say keep an open mind when reading and do your own testing and come to your own conclusions about which is best.

Results can be very good with the Collet as long as pressures are low to moderate. I shot the barrel out on an ex-UK police force Parker-Hale M86 sniper rifle some years back using little other than this die with excellent results, but with mild loads only. As soon as pressures approach those of factory ammunition, (ie mid to upper 50,000s psi), brass flows and you start to get hard chambering and even harder extraction. This is nearly all shoulder movement at this level and can appear in a single firing / reloading cycle. Not only is a case to chamber crush fit very undesirable in itself, you invariably find inconsistencies between cases / rounds so sized - one chambers easily; the next has its shoulder barely kiss the chamber and sees a trace of resistance to bolt closure; the third is a crush fit with hard bolt closure.

You will gain your best accuracy with a good fit die that matches your chamber and FL sized with that die as everything will be more consistent.

This is a better option for full-pressure loads by far.

 

[dminn1]

Results can be very good with the Collet as long as pressures are low to moderate. I shot the barrel out on an ex-UK police force Parker-Hale M86 sniper rifle some years back using little other than this die with excellent results, but with mild loads only. As soon as pressures approach those of factory ammunition, (ie mid to upper 50,000s psi), brass flows and you start to get hard chambering and even harder extraction. This is nearly all shoulder movement at this level and can appear in a single firing / reloading cycle. Not only is a case to chamber crush fit very undesirable in itself, you invariably find inconsistencies between cases / rounds so sized - one chambers easily; the next has its shoulder barely kiss the chamber and sees a trace of resistance to bolt closure; the third is a crush fit with hard bolt closure.

This mirrors my experience with Collet dies. I almost exclusively full length size with the Redding body dies to maintain consistent clearances in my chambers and utilize the Collet die to control the necks. Testing has shown me that the crush fit in and of itself is not always undesirable but inconsistencies from case to case, where some chamber easily and others with varying resistance, will wreck your grouping ability quickly. Like you I have found pressure to be the critical factor involved and now utilize full length sizing in all but the mildest loads I run.

 

[Laurie]

I almost exclusively full length size with the Redding body dies to maintain consistent clearances in my chambers and utilize the Collet die to control the necks.

I've heard on the forum that many US and even more so Canadian 223 Rem heavy-bullet aficonados do this with good results, so tried it myself a year or two back with promising results. I have a new barrel on the way for my 'mouse gun' and will carry on using the Collet + body dies combination.

Veteran UK benchrest shooter Vince Bottomley talks of one of our 1K BR competitors of many years back who used a 7mm Rem Magnum with brass so tight that he struggled to operate the bolt making fast shooting impossible. Despite that, Vince says his groups were good as long as a wind change didn't catch him out of course! As you say, a crush fit is not necessarily bad in itself, although I imagine it'll be very rifle specific - but the inconsistency is a precision-killer.

I dug out a Collet die for 260 Rem last year to cut down on reloading workload. It had worked well with a previous 260 maybe 10 years ago, but the inconsistent shoulder movement became obvious on only the second loading of new Lapua brass this time around. When I looked at my old loads and compared them to the new ones, it was soon obvious I was now running much higher pressure combinations.

 

[K22]

I don't use collet dies and have no opinion good or bad about them. Frankly, I try to avoid complexities in my reloading.

If you are a hunter you may want to make sure that your cases will chamber and extract. You don't want to get caught in the field with a round that won't chamber or exact. For this reason I'm not fan of neck sizing. I honestly have never experienced any benefit in neck sizing either with regards to improve accuracy or case life. My neck sizing dies have been paper weights for the last 10 years.

For me, full length resizing with a .001 to .002" shoulder set back and an expander ball works extremely well and I never have to worry about a round chambering or extracting. With some of my precision rifles (with after market match grade barrels) I'm able to achieve 1/4 moa groups and under using a standard full length resizing die.