243 for F open
- Thread starter Mudder
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Waderthemudder said:
It depends on what you mean by competitive. In my view, 190/200 is pretty good shooting at 1000, especially if there is a breeze. But you won't win too many trophies with that. Look at the scores at the matches you expect to attend. If your area is not usually windy, and the winning scores average at or below 190/200, then a .243 might be "competitive."
The 6.5x284 is another choice with less recoil than the .284 Win. But those high BC 7mm bullets from Berger and Sierra are going to resist the wind better and give those shooters more margin for error missing a wind reading over the course of a 60-120 round tournament.
But when you actually shoot a 22 lb rifle, you might agree that the recoil of the .284 Win is tolerable. I am not particularly recoil tolerant, but even a .300 Win Mag is not hard to handle in a 22 lb rifle. I favor the .284 Win more for barrel life than for recoil. It seems to be the sweet spot between high BC, long barrel life, inherent accuracy, and mild recoil in a heavy rifle.
Waderthemudder said:
In F-Open, you would burn the throat out in short order with the .243 or any other "hot-rod" in the same class.. For something with LESS recoil than the .284 class of cartridges, a .260A.I. is a decent performer. A 6.5 x 47 can work well. BUT the problem you run into, if wanting to be competitive, is you WILL be shooting against the .284, it's improved variants and some WSM's. If the wind is contrary at all, you would be at a distinct disadvantage. However, if you have "normal" winds, either one of the aforementioned cartridges can be competitive.
Berger.Fan222 said:
Thanks for the help guys. The 7mm page shows that the 284 has 4 inches less drift at 1000 than the 243. So that's not really the reason right? More of the barrel life thing?
I shoot Dasher and 6.5x47 now. Dasher is definitely my favorite cartridge but in F open at 1000 it seems like it doesn't win?
It also says on the 7mm page that a 284 with 180s is similar to a 308 with 155s which is about the limit of what I think is fun
my 308 is about 16 lbs.Waderthemudder said:
A 6 Dasher at 600 yards and less is VERY difficult to beat, unless the wind is H-O-W-L-I-N-G! However, if the wind is blowing substantially, a .260A.I. or 6.5 X 47 with EITHER shooting 140 class bullets, will be deflected quite a bit less than a 6 Dasher. However, under "normal" wind conditions, a Dasher will beat just about anything..
ShootDots said:
My Dasher seems to out shoot my 47... Pretty much always
One of my 47s will not shoot the 140s but I probably better try them in the other.One thing I don't get is that lots are shooting the magnums with even shorter barrel life that 243 but with tons of recoil and a little better wind drift?
Thanks for answering my funky questions.
Not sure what talking above but it will be interesting to look about performance from John Whidden with the 243 and 105 Berger at 1000 yds!
He was shooting some records with this cartridge but yes the speed was around 3300 f/s . Looking about accuracy elevation the 243 will perform
at the same level comparing the 284 and maybe a little better. I much like a less recoiling rifle!
Michel
He was shooting some records with this cartridge but yes the speed was around 3300 f/s . Looking about accuracy elevation the 243 will perform
at the same level comparing the 284 and maybe a little better. I much like a less recoiling rifle!
Michel
As stated the 243 is a barrel burner.
For mid-range matches out to 600yds it's hard to beat the 6 BR or Dasher or any of the improved 6BR's (BRX, BRDX ect.) All have good barrel life and mild recoil. The 6.5/47, 260's have a little more recoil and great ballistics with just a little more recoil. Still less than the felt recoil of the 308. At 1K the 7mm's are the favorite along with some of the bigger 30cals with heavy Bullets. We talk about barrel life and the big 7mm's don't live long. True, recoil is manageable but remember this. It's one thing to shoot say 3-5 rounds, not bad you say. Now shoot a match and you may be shooting 60+ rounds in a day. After a while the recoil will get to you even in a 22lb rifle. Yeah, some of top shooters use these but how many top shooters are there? How much punishment can you take in a day? Any of the 6-6.5's mentioned above will do well at 1K, you just gotta work a little harder on the wind.
Most of the shooters I know are just plain old working Joe's/Janes. They don't shoot that many 1K matches (shortage of 1K ranges within driving distance) so barrel life is important to them. Pick a caliber suited to the range you'll shoot the most, have fun and go for it.
For mid-range matches out to 600yds it's hard to beat the 6 BR or Dasher or any of the improved 6BR's (BRX, BRDX ect.) All have good barrel life and mild recoil. The 6.5/47, 260's have a little more recoil and great ballistics with just a little more recoil. Still less than the felt recoil of the 308. At 1K the 7mm's are the favorite along with some of the bigger 30cals with heavy Bullets. We talk about barrel life and the big 7mm's don't live long. True, recoil is manageable but remember this. It's one thing to shoot say 3-5 rounds, not bad you say. Now shoot a match and you may be shooting 60+ rounds in a day. After a while the recoil will get to you even in a 22lb rifle. Yeah, some of top shooters use these but how many top shooters are there? How much punishment can you take in a day? Any of the 6-6.5's mentioned above will do well at 1K, you just gotta work a little harder on the wind.
Most of the shooters I know are just plain old working Joe's/Janes. They don't shoot that many 1K matches (shortage of 1K ranges within driving distance) so barrel life is important to them. Pick a caliber suited to the range you'll shoot the most, have fun and go for it.
coford
Gold $$ Contributor
It is both drift and barrel life.
4" less drift is huge to me. When you consider how many 9's would have been 10's or 10's would have been X's over the course of a shooting career - 4" means a lot.
The .243 will also have half the barrel life of a .284. That comes from experience with both - not BS. I'm getting 1700 to 1800 out of my .284 barrels and less than half of that when I was shooting my .243 - in fact more like 800 - 900 with the .243 and 100 grain+ bullets.
I started long range BR with a 243 WIN and graduated to a 6BRX. Way better barrel life and same accuracy. Now I have added a 284 WIN to my safe and I started shooting F Open with it. I recently tried my 6BRX for F Open and shot the best scores I ever have at F Class! This at 1000 yd.
I know the 284 WIN has less wind drift, but my wind and mirage reading skills are the real limiting factors, not my bullet's drift. I have noticed that the really good shooters at our club do good regardless of the gun they use. To take advantage of the drift of a particular bullet, you have to be capable of estimating the wind just as accurately as with a more drifting bullet. Your skill just adds a different drift constant.
I know the 284 WIN has less wind drift, but my wind and mirage reading skills are the real limiting factors, not my bullet's drift. I have noticed that the really good shooters at our club do good regardless of the gun they use. To take advantage of the drift of a particular bullet, you have to be capable of estimating the wind just as accurately as with a more drifting bullet. Your skill just adds a different drift constant.
Before the NRA took over or "approved" F-Class I gave a .243 Win use in F-Open, shot killer, cleaning mid range targets with ease....and also the barrel gave out before the end of the first season....everyone told me it would, I didn't care it was still fun!
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
If you care about barrel life youre in the wrong game. A barrel is a consumable that you should freshen up quite often if you want to stay on top.
ShootDots said:
TX State Midrange @ Panola - what caliber was the winner shooting? What was his score?
Mark Walker in TX said:ShootDots said:
TX State Midrange @ Panola - what caliber was the winner shooting? What was his score?
You have to admit Mark, wind was nearly a non-issue. Mirage was the culprit that weekend! I doubt that the wind ever made it over 3 M.P.H. However, the mirage was so bad, it was "shoot and hope" for everyone! Cartridge and caliber was of little consequence..
ShootDots said:
Precisely my point, wind was nearly a non-issuse and what caliber won the match? Come on, you can say it...
;DI would disagree it was a "shoot and hope", that's a discredit to the 1200 shot, by what case again was that?
;DWait, the NR was also tied at this match - twice. Hum, wonder what case, in addition to Fowler and his Dasher did that? Hum...
;D Also, what caliber/case was used to win the MRFCNC?
;D
falconpilot
Gold $$ Contributor
Ok Mark..Since you don't seem to know, I'll tell you..it was a damn 284!! ;D
No doubt that at long range the 284 has the edge over the Dasher, and as Ken proved, it's just as good at Mid-Ranges if you know how to drive it...I do believe the 6's are more forgiving of handling mistakes, thus the large amount of really good mid-range scores posted with the Dasher or 6's, but a man that knows how to handle his 284 is a man hard to beat!
No doubt that at long range the 284 has the edge over the Dasher, and as Ken proved, it's just as good at Mid-Ranges if you know how to drive it...I do believe the 6's are more forgiving of handling mistakes, thus the large amount of really good mid-range scores posted with the Dasher or 6's, but a man that knows how to handle his 284 is a man hard to beat!
falconpilot said:
You are correct Jim.. And Mark, there was NEVER an attempt, nor even a slight insinuation against the perfect score of Ken! That never entered my mind.. I do believe that in the conditions we had, which made the target very hard to even see at times, allowed for the person who could 'shoot thru" the mirage better than anyone, to win! And win he did! I also believe that had we had cloud cover there, not only would the wind have been a "non-issue", either would the mirage and there would have been "more than a few" 600's and possibly one or two more 1200's and it would have come down to "X" count. If Ken would have been shooting Jim's Dasher, or my .260A.I., I would have bet he STILL would have scored a 1200!
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