22BR vs BRA vs BRX vs GT vs Dasher

[Lefty2506]

This would probably be a better question on the 6mm stuff, but since I'm mostly interested in 22 cal at the moment, I'm asking it here. My main interest is in building a bolt gun to shoot PDs past 500 yds, and I'd likely be chambering a 26" barrel. I've been trying to understand the practical differences between these cartridges. My current understanding is that all of them are based on the BR case. In regards to their 22cal format, what does each of them gain over the original BR case? My understanding is that the Dasher is the fastest of the bunch, but how much faster is it with 75gr and 90gr projectiles, and what is a person giving up if they go with a 22 Dasher instead of a 22 BR?

While I don't own one, my constant reference point has been a 223AI, and my assumption is that the AI will give me a 75fps to 100fps over my current 223 which pushes a 53gr vmax 3500 fps, and a 75gr eld 2950 fps. My assumption is that an AI would get the 75s comfortably over 3k. So I'm trying to understand how the 22 BR would compare to that, and then what the advantages are to the other 22 cal incarnations of the BR.

 

[rijndael]

My current understanding is that all of them are based on the BR case

The initial GT brass was formed from 6.5x47 brass, not BR.

 

[urbanrifleman]

This would probably be a better question on the 6mm stuff, but since I'm mostly interested in 22 cal at the moment, I'm asking it here. My main interest is in building a bolt gun to shoot PDs past 500 yds, and I'd likely be chambering a 26" barrel. I've been trying to understand the practical differences between these cartridges. My current understanding is that all of them are based on the BR case. In regards to their 22cal format, what does each of them gain over the original BR case? My understanding is that the Dasher is the fastest of the bunch, but how much faster is it with 75gr and 90gr projectiles, and what is a person giving up if they go with a 22 Dasher instead of a 22 BR?

While I don't own one, my constant reference point has been a 223AI, and my assumption is that the AI will give me a 75fps to 100fps over my current 223 which pushes a 53gr vmax 3500 fps, and a 75gr eld 2950 fps. My assumption is that an AI would get the 75s comfortably over 3k. So I'm trying to understand how the 22 BR would compare to that, and then what the advantages are to the other 22 cal incarnations of the BR.

About the same velocities from a 223a as a 22br. The 22bra will be about 100 fps more. The 22 Dasher about 50 fps more than that. The 22gt about 50-100 more than that (possibly). I think the 6gt and Dasher are super close velocity wise.

All in all, the 223 Ackley is impressive.

I can shoot any caliber pretty much. I shoot 233a, 22bra, and 22xc. These are the best ones I have tested.

I suppose when the 6gt gets made by Lapua (if they keep the market supplied) the 6gt based cartridges are going to explode in popularity. It's not my favorite, but 22 gt should be a great pdog cartridge. Like a 22250 but less powder.

 

[Fuj]

22 Nosler

 

[Matt_3479]

This would probably be a better question on the 6mm stuff, but since I'm mostly interested in 22 cal at the moment, I'm asking it here. My main interest is in building a bolt gun to shoot PDs past 500 yds, and I'd likely be chambering a 26" barrel. I've been trying to understand the practical differences between these cartridges. My current understanding is that all of them are based on the BR case. In regards to their 22cal format, what does each of them gain over the original BR case? My understanding is that the Dasher is the fastest of the bunch, but how much faster is it with 75gr and 90gr projectiles, and what is a person giving up if they go with a 22 Dasher instead of a 22 BR?

While I don't own one, my constant reference point has been a 223AI, and my assumption is that the AI will give me a 75fps to 100fps over my current 223 which pushes a 53gr vmax 3500 fps, and a 75gr eld 2950 fps. My assumption is that an AI would get the 75s comfortably over 3k. So I'm trying to understand how the 22 BR would compare to that, and then what the advantages are to the other 22 cal incarnations of the BR.

The 223 ai is an impressive little cartridge no doubt and a great addition to someone line up. The 22br while performance wise would be very similar possibly slight edge to the br but not enough to really matter. Where I find the BR’s have an advantage in the shorter wider powder column seems to be easier to tune, stay in tune and generally easier to get more consistent es and sd. Not saying you can’t with the 223/223ai just seem you need to work at it a bit more then a br or variant.

The 22bra gives 100-150fps over the br from my experience but it’s pretty small sample. The dasher and bra are very similar in performance again with a slight edge in the dasher. The shorter neck on the dasher doesn’t matter as much in 22 cal bullets but in the 6’s I prefer the longer neck of the br/bra.

The gt should be a heavily step up. The dasher holds pressure well as does the bra, so people can push these little cartridges to higher velocities while hiding pressure where the gt will hit that next node with ease. It’s not based on the br case

 

[urbanrifleman]

The 223 ai is an impressive little cartridge no doubt and a great addition to someone line up. The 22br while performance wise would be very similar possibly slight edge to the br but not enough to really matter. Where I find the BR’s have an advantage in the shorter wider powder column seems to be easier to tune, stay in tune and generally easier to get more consistent es and sd. Not saying you can’t with the 223/223ai just seem you need to work at it a bit more then a br or variant.

The 22bra gives 100-150fps over the br from my experience but it’s pretty small sample. The dasher and bra are very similar in performance again with a slight edge in the dasher. The shorter neck on the dasher doesn’t matter as much in 22 cal bullets but in the 6’s I prefer the longer neck of the br/bra.

The gt should be a heavily step up. The dasher holds pressure well as does the bra, so people can push these little cartridges to higher velocities while hiding pressure where the gt will hit that next node with ease. It’s not based on the br case

The 22br/22Bra shoots better than anything I have ever shot.

 

[Matt_3479]

The 22br/22Bra shoots better than anything I have ever shot.

100% those straight br, and bra’s are phenomenal. I’ve seen some wildly impressive 223, 223 ai’s, and dashers but it doesn’t seem to be as maintenance free or doesn’t seem to be produce as consistent of numbers. The dasher seems to be pretty damn close majority of the time I would be comfortable putting it in the same category for accuracy and numbers, but not necessarily as easy

 

[Darkside]

Does the 22 Creedmore fall in somewhere.

 

[Lefty2506]

I can shoot any caliber pretty much. I shoot 233a, 22bra, and 22xc. These are the best ones I have tested.

That's kind of what I'm aiming for. I've been running a 223 in a Savage Model 12 sitting in an Oryx chassis. I hope to get a 20 practical AR upper in the coming months, and it will largely replace the Savage for PDs. Long term, I'm looking for a 3 gun setup where I'd run the AR out to around 400 yds, and then switch to bolt guns with one of them chambered in something like a 22 BRA for going out to 600 or 700 yds, and then something bigger like a 22xc or 22 CM for anything further than that. The water is just really muddy in regards to that middle cartridge. There seems to be a lot of options, and they are all really close in performance to several of the others.

If the BR is really close to a 223ai, then I'd likely step up to at least a 22 BRA. I like the fact that the BR is easier to load for and has larger accuracy nodes. That's important to me, but if I'm spending the $$ I'd rather pick up that extra 100fps while I'm at it. Seems like it would be a straight forward process for making 22 BRA brass.

My understanding is that the Dasher is really close to a 22-250, and the 22CM and 22XC are really close to a 22-250 AI. If that's the case, I'd likely skip over the dasher and go straight to a CM or XC case if I'm wanting more than what the 22BRA gives me. I'm also waiting to see what the 22 ARC ends up doing. In a bolt gun, it seems like it should be able to run with a 22 BRA. With good components, if it proves to be as forgiving as the BR case, then maybe a 22 ARC AI could be considered.

 

[Evan]

22 BR is really easy and produces exceptional accuracy. If you like to run hot loads, the 22 BR will handle it better than a 223 without wrecking the brass, but you’re locked in to only expensive brass. 223 brass can be found cheap although it is counterproductive to use cheap brass for meeting the demanding accuracy requirements of long range. Folks who say the 223ai is close to the 22 BR are running the AI hard and the BR gentle. The BR has a solid 2+gn greater capacity.

I see no reason to go any bigger than the BR. It’s already eating barrels appreciably faster than a 223 and it will get the 90gn bullets up to 3050-3080fps where a node is.

 

[urbanrifleman]

22 BR is really easy and produces exceptional accuracy. If you like to run hot loads, the 22 BR will handle it better than a 223 without wrecking the brass, but you’re locked in to only expensive brass. 223 brass can be found cheap although it is counterproductive to use cheap brass for meeting the demanding accuracy requirements of long range. Folks who say the 223ai is close to the 22 BR are running the AI hard and the BR gentle. The BR has a solid 2+gn greater capacity.

I see no reason to go any bigger than the BR. It’s already eating barrels appreciably faster than a 223 and it will get the 90gn bullets up to 3050-3080fps where a node is.

You are correct. The 223A is very close. The 22bra will move the bullet faster.

But with lighter bullets like the 40-55 grain bullets that most people shoot on varmints, there is little difference. The heavier bullets probably more difference for sure.

We are shooting the 62 ELDVT pretty much across the board now. I may take the 22xc and shoot some 88 elvt just for fun next trip. If I get any time to work up a load!!! (getting married)

 

[urbanrifleman]

That's kind of what I'm aiming for. I've been running a 223 in a Savage Model 12 sitting in an Oryx chassis. I hope to get a 20 practical AR upper in the coming months, and it will largely replace the Savage for PDs. Long term, I'm looking for a 3 gun setup where I'd run the AR out to around 400 yds, and then switch to bolt guns with one of them chambered in something like a 22 BRA for going out to 600 or 700 yds, and then something bigger like a 22xc or 22 CM for anything further than that. The water is just really muddy in regards to that middle cartridge. There seems to be a lot of options, and they are all really close in performance to several of the others.

If the BR is really close to a 223ai, then I'd likely step up to at least a 22 BRA. I like the fact that the BR is easier to load for and has larger accuracy nodes. That's important to me, but if I'm spending the $$ I'd rather pick up that extra 100fps while I'm at it. Seems like it would be a straight forward process for making 22 BRA brass.

My understanding is that the Dasher is really close to a 22-250, and the 22CM and 22XC are really close to a 22-250 AI. If that's the case, I'd likely skip over the dasher and go straight to a CM or XC case if I'm wanting more than what the 22BRA gives me. I'm also waiting to see what the 22 ARC ends up doing. In a bolt gun, it seems like it should be able to run with a 22 BRA. With good components, if it proves to be as forgiving as the BR case, then maybe a 22 ARC AI could be considered.

I can hook you up with all that is you go bolt gun across the board (which I recommend). Gas guns on the prairie are a pain (I think). I tried it. I like the bolt gun a lot more.

I would consider the 20 Sploder (20-223a) that thing is impressive. And you can fire form over 4000 fps while shooting pdogs and still get the same groups.

 

[rijndael]

I'm surprised to see no mention of 22 Creed.

 

[Evan]

You are correct. The 223A is very close. The 22bra will move the bullet faster.

But with lighter bullets like the 40-55 grain bullets that most people shoot on varmints, there is little difference. The heavier bullets probably more difference for sure.

We are shooting the 62 ELDVT pretty much across the board now. I may take the 22xc and shoot some 88 elvt just for fun next trip. If I get any time to work up a load!!! (getting married)

Congrats!


I mentioned heavies because the 75-90gn class was mentioned and the talk of 500+ yards on pd which gets a little challenging in the wind with the light bullets (not including the new eldvt line).

I shot 22-250 for years. It is a fantastic cartridge that is very accurate (in 4 barrels, every last one would shoot in the 2s). I decided to try a 22 BR instead and have had no desire to go back or had any want for more speed in the 7 years since. In fact I have been steadily moving the other direction with my 22 PPC and 222.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

Just remember - the more "fuel" the more heat. Running a barrel hot will wear it out faster. Getting onto varmints, on a hot day, with a large capacity 22....and the 223 starts to look real interesting.

 

[RegionRat]

We are shooting the 62 ELDVT pretty much across the board now. I may take the 22xc and shoot some 88 elvt just for fun next trip. If I get any time to work up a load!!! (getting married)

Snuck that last thing in there....

Congrats and Best Wishes!

The OP's list wasn't in correct order for case capacity.

Those cartridges will run faster in order of capacity for the majority of us like @Evan is pointing out in post #10.
If you push a smaller one at high pressure, and a bigger one at low pressure, it doesn't mean that is how they lay out in trade space.

As far as advice, I will not throw a horse into the cartridge race, but will suggest the OP picks the bullet and speed he thinks he wants for the different low-med-hi distances he is proposing, and then back into the twist and case that does that without resorting to high pressure.

 

[806guns]

Im shooting a 16" 22gt with 80.5 at 2800 fps with h4350 and no pressures. Alpha headstamped brass is awesome

I have a 22xc from @urbanrifleman but haven't played with it much.

The 223ai i had was just badass with 50gr tnt. Didn't shoot it much and sold it.

If I were to do another I might just do a 223 ai and have fun. But part of me wants a 22br or bra. Just have to place a order with Brad @urbanrifleman and all is done

 

[urbanrifleman]

Im shooting a 16" 22gt with 80.5 at 2800 fps with h4350 and no pressures. Alpha headstamped brass is awesome

I have a 22xc from @urbanrifleman but haven't played with it much.

The 223ai i had was just badass with 50gr tnt. Didn't shoot it much and sold it.

If I were to do another I might just do a 223 ai and have fun. But part of me wants a 22br or bra. Just have to place a order with Brad @urbanrifleman and all is done

I have 22 BR ackley reamers. I have two of them. One is a 50 freeboard and is ideal for all of the bullets under 80 grain and I have a 150 free bore which is ideal for everything up to an 88 ELDM. If you just want to shoot fast you really want the 50 freebore

 

[Lefty2506]

I can hook you up with all that is you go bolt gun across the board (which I recommend). Gas guns on the prairie are a pain (I think). I tried it. I like the bolt gun a lot more.

I would consider the 20 Sploder (20-223a) that thing is impressive. And you can fire form over 4000 fps while shooting pdogs and still get the same groups.

I'm sticking with the AR for the closer stuff because it's cheaper for me to go that route meaning I should be able to have it ready by the start of next season. My original plan was to go with a bolt gun. You and I had talked about it, and I had everything ready to go. I was just waiting on my taxes to get done to make sure I didn't have any unexpected surprises. Well, there was an unexpected surprise. My wife changed positions at her job (RN, hospital) and they reset her withholdings to their default without us knowing about it and we ended up owing a little over $4k to Uncle Sam. Sooo... the funding for that project got re-assigned. I've run the numbers and I think I can be into a new AR upper in 20 Practical for around a grand with new brass and dies included. I've used an ARs before. I like bolt guns better for distance, but I've run my ARs out to 700 yds, and inside of 300 yds there is a big advantage to being able to run from a 30rnd mag and not having to cycle a bolt

Originally, I thought the 20 TAC was basically a 20 Practical AI. I didn't realize the shoulder was pushed back on the TAC. I think I'm sticking with the Practical just because the dies are cheaper, uppers and barrels are readily available, and a 40gr .204 vmax at +3700 fps should be more than enough for 400 yds.

The only reason I'm not really looking at the 223AI is because I don't feel like its enough of a step up in performance over a 20 Practical. If I was wanting ONE bolt action rifle for prairie dogs, a 223AI would be on my short list. Since I want at least 2 guns, I'm going with the AR in 20 Practical for shooting volume, and a bolt gun in a "middle" cartridge for when I want to stretch out a little farther. I realize, and even appreciate the idea that I can run a larger case and not push it as hard to get better case life, better barrel life, and often times more consistent accuracy, but its not in my nature. Even at 49 years old, if the book says 2900, I'm going to molly the bullets and see if I can get 3k....

As far as projectiles, I run mostly 53gr in my 223, but it likes the 75s too. Most of my misses are elevation, so I put a little more emphasis on speed than I do BC. For a midsize cartridge, I'm planning on shooting 75gr because they are economical, but there's a very good chance I'd end up running the newer 62 eldvt instead. In these cases, it should have about 1/2" more drift at 500 than a 75, but it should be dropping about 8" less.

I live in Indiana, and can only afford (already married) to get out west once a year for a 3 day hunt. From the bolt gun, I'll probably only go through around 300rnds per year so barrel life shouldn't be a huge concern. I've not been on very many towns that would let me shoot more than 700 yds. A 22CM is an option, but at this point I think it will be too expensive to feed to make it worth my while at the distances I'm actually shooting.

 

[linebaugh]

22 BR straight would be my choice.