.224 Valkyrie

[NCVarhtr]

Do any of you guys know anything about this new cartridge that Federal has introduced? Looks kinda interesting and the case has a lot of interesting potential>>>>>

 

[thekriebles]

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/224-valkyrie.3931816/

 

[NCVarhtr]

I was hoping for an update and some actual experience in the field and on the range...Thanks for the 4 pages...

 

['Freak]

22 Nosler vs. 224 Valkyrie, a bit of comparison.

Both have 30° shoulders and overall are dimensionally similar.

The Nosler case body is a thousandth or two less in diameter at .200” forward of the case head and again at the case body to case shoulder transition.

The Nosler from case head to the neck/shoulder junction is .189” longer than Valkyrie.

The Nosler overflow case capacity is 34.2gr of H2O vs. 30.5gr for Valkyrie, 3.7gr less than the Nosler.

The Nosler case neck is .039” shorter than a Valkyrie neck.

Loaded using the same bullets seated to identical overall cartridge lengths and the Nosler can’t help but to have more room for the same flavor of go powder which should translate into greater muzzle velocity.

https://gunsmithtalk.files.wordpress.com/2017/12/224valkyrievs22_250.jpg?w=500

http://www.saami.org/PDF/22Nosler-Intro.pdf

 

[deadduck357]

22 Nosler vs. 224 Valkyrie, a bit of comparison.

Both have 30° shoulders and overall are dimensionally similar.

The Nosler case body is a thousandth or two less in diameter at .200” forward of the case head and again at the case body to case shoulder transition.

The Nosler from case head to the neck/shoulder junction is .189” longer than Valkyrie.

The Nosler overflow case capacity is 34.2gr of H2O vs. 30.5gr for Valkyrie, 3.7gr less than the Nosler.

The Nosler case neck is .039” shorter than a Valkyrie neck.

Loaded using the same bullets seated to identical overall cartridge lengths and the Nosler can’t help but to have more room for the same flavor of go powder which should translate into greater muzzle velocity.

https://gunsmithtalk.files.wordpress.com/2017/12/224valkyrievs22_250.jpg?w=500

http://www.saami.org/PDF/22Nosler-Intro.pdf

Well that's understandable that the Nosler would have a smaller diameter at body shoulder juncture because of the taper at length, but figured at the bottom of the body they would be similar because both are derived from the SPC. Would be nice if there was a dimensional comparison drawing. ??

Q 2: Will the new 95gr SMK fit (properly) within the 224V and stay within STANAG length?

 

[steve123]

22 Nosler vs. 224 Valkyrie, a bit of comparison.

Both have 30° shoulders and overall are dimensionally similar.

The Nosler case body is a thousandth or two less in diameter at .200” forward of the case head and again at the case body to case shoulder transition.

The Nosler from case head to the neck/shoulder junction is .189” longer than Valkyrie.

The Nosler overflow case capacity is 34.2gr of H2O vs. 30.5gr for Valkyrie, 3.7gr less than the Nosler.

The Nosler case neck is .039” shorter than a Valkyrie neck.

Loaded using the same bullets seated to identical overall cartridge lengths and the Nosler can’t help but to have more room for the same flavor of go powder which should translate into greater muzzle velocity.

https://gunsmithtalk.files.wordpress.com/2017/12/224valkyrievs22_250.jpg?w=500

http://www.saami.org/PDF/22Nosler-Intro.pdf

You'd think, but that's not all there is to it.

I don't know which to put first, quality or strength,
but #1 to me it's about the strength of the bottom portion of the case. How thick is the web area, the metallurgy of the brass, annealing, etc? I don't pretend to understand this stuff but I certainly have seen major differences in case designs as far as cases holding up to higher pressures from a longevity point and a strength point/holding a primer when fired with higher pressures.

#2 is overall brass quality.
Deformed brass?
Flash holes centered?
Primer pockets consistent in depth and uniformity?
Brass not prone to case head separation.
Strong rims and are they a consistent thickness?



The x47L is a perfect example, push the pressures and it doesn't care. It's like the energizer bunny, or like a timex - just keeps ticking. The quality is as good as it gets.

Worst example for me was when Nosler 6.5-284 brass first came out, that lasted 2-3 firings, but other brands of brass in other cartridges that only went 3-5 firings with medium loads.

The jury is already out on 22N, the brass doesn't hold up at the advertised velocities because they are soft. I didn't think the rebated rim was worth it's positives either.

We hope the 224V doesn't suffer the same fate

 

[Laurie]

Well that's understandable that the Nosler would have a smaller diameter at body shoulder juncture because of the taper at length, but figured at the bottom of the body they would be similar because both are derived from the SPC. Would be nice if there was a dimensional comparison drawing. ??

They're not both derived from the SPC. As with the other Nosler designs, the 22 Nosler is a rebated rim type that in this example uses the standard 0.378" dia. 223 rim / case-head arrangement but with a fatter body ahead of the extractor groove that appears to be similar to that of the SPC, but is longer overall at 1.760".

Apart from some extra capacity, the plus for the Nosler is that it only requires a barrel and magazine change to convert an AR-15 upper. The Valkyrie needs those plus an SPC / 7.62X39 dimensioned bolt. It has a shorter case than the parent 6.8 SPC (and that of the 223 Rem and 22 Nosler) though at 1.620" max which is how the cartridge can handle the 90gn SMK without the top of the bullet shank being pushed below the case-mouth. As far as I can see, despite the larger case, the Nosler design will be constrained on both bullet choice and seating position at 2.26" COALs for the AR-15.

I'm not into AR gunsmithing, but I'm told by those who are that the Valkyrie's SPC diameter case-body and case-head allow relatively easy and reliable extraction, whilst the larger surface area of the Nosler design plus smaller 223 case-head sees the rim take a pounding and this affects both case life and rifle reliability in semi-auto magazine feed operation.

I think the Valkyrie looks like a nice design for a 22-calibre single-shot long-freebore bolt-gun with an extra couple of hundred fps for 90s compared to the 223 Rem in similar long-throat very high pressure mode.

 

['Freak]

Includes 224 Valkyrie cartoon (unofficial) …

22 Nosler cartoon (SAAMI) …
http://www.saami.org/PDF/22Nosler-Intro.pdf


And, 20 Nosler cartoon (SAAMI) …
http://www.saami.org/PDF/20Nosler-Intro.pdf
note the even longer case body ...

 

[deadduck357]

They're not both derived from the SPC.

Besides the rebated rim of the Nosler which are you suggesting is not derived from the SPC?

 

[Laurie]

Besides the rebated rim of the Nosler which are you suggesting is not derived from the SPC?

I'm suggesting the .22 Nosler. The case-head design is the most fundamental bit of the box of tricks that make up a cartridge design and it is very difficult to see family resemblances or paternity when they are as different as this pair. Then on top of that, the shoulder angles are different (30 v 23-deg); the Nosler has a longer case overall, and within that a longer case-body section. The only thing in common with the SPC is the case-body diameter, and I'd imagine that was a given unless Nosler wanted to foist a third magazine design onto AR-15 users. Common sense says that if you're designing a new AR-15 number, it has to suit existing magazines designed around either the 223 or the 6.8SPC.

The 224 Valkyrie on the other hand is a modified, if heavily so, version of the SPC case. Whether it is the same internally (ie case-head / web thickness and strength) is unknown - I'd hope Federal makes them tougher than Remington's original. I also wonder which size primer Federal has adopted as the SPC is made in both Large and Small Rifle primer configurations, the latter providing a stronger case head.

Where Federal has made changes, it is frequently in the opposite (and IMO) better direction primarily in reducing case length and pushing the shoulders back, while Nosler has gone the other way. While the Nosler case has a larger capacity, it is offset by its reducing options for the type / length of bullet that can be accommodated within the 2.26" COAL mandated by the action and magazine lengths.

 

['Freak]

I'm suggesting the .22 Nosler. The case-head design is the most fundamental bit of the box of tricks that make up a cartridge design and it is very difficult to see family resemblances or paternity when they are as different as this pair. Then on top of that, the shoulder angles are different (30 v 23-deg); the Nosler has a longer case overall, and within that a longer case-body section. The only thing in common with the SPC is the case-body diameter, and I'd imagine that was a given unless Nosler wanted to foist a third magazine design onto AR-15 users. Common sense says that if you're designing a new AR-15 number, it has to suit existing magazines designed around either the 223 or the 6.8SPC.

The 224 Valkyrie on the other hand is a modified, if heavily so, version of the SPC case. Whether it is the same internally (ie case-head / web thickness and strength) is unknown - I'd hope Federal makes them tougher than Remington's original. I also wonder which size primer Federal has adopted as the SPC is made in both Large and Small Rifle primer configurations, the latter providing a stronger case head.

Where Federal has made changes, it is frequently in the opposite (and IMO) better direction primarily in reducing case length and pushing the shoulders back, while Nosler has gone the other way. While the Nosler case has a larger capacity, it is offset by its reducing options for the type / length of bullet that can be accommodated within the 2.26" COAL mandated by the action and magazine lengths.

Nosler’s latest 22 Cal. RDF bullet is an 85gr. HPBT, G1 BC is .498, G7 BC is .245, and with an OAL of 1.135”.

In 224 Valkyrie at COAL 2.260”, gonna be .201” of this bullet seated beyond the neck/shoulder junction.

In 22 Nosler at COAL 2.260”, there’s gonna be .390” of this bullet seated beyond the neck/shoulder junction.

Even so, still leaves more room remaining for more of the same flavors of go powder to be dumped into the 22 Nosler case.