I just rebarreled my Model 70 .223 WSSM with a Douglas 1-9. It has been several, to maybe several more, years since I put any time at the bench with this rifle/cartridge. Anyone still playing with this round? What powders are you using these days? I was using H-414 primarily with 55 grain pills as well as RL-15. It was an absolute hoot to shoot before I toasted the barrel so I'm looking forward to fiddling around at the bench with it again.
.223 WSSM Powders
- Thread starter jpjulian
- Start date
NZ_Fclass
Silver $$ Contributor
It doesn't surprise me that you needed a new barrel. Given delivery times, you should order another straight away! The WSSM's didn't catch on down here. An acquaintance had the 243 version. - it was a Winchester something with a Tupperware stock.
Given the case diameter to bore diameter, I would stick to single base powders. H4831SC would be my first call and H4350 would produce higher velocities and pressure. IMR4831 and Vihtavouri N160/N165 could also be useful, but I would avoid ball powders to preserve barrel life.
Given the case diameter to bore diameter, I would stick to single base powders. H4831SC would be my first call and H4350 would produce higher velocities and pressure. IMR4831 and Vihtavouri N160/N165 could also be useful, but I would avoid ball powders to preserve barrel life.
Been a little while since I loaded any 223 WSSM. Figured out that I was using Varget with the 55 grain bullets. Bought the gun to load a bigger bullet to use on antelope, which I haven't gotten to yet. Probably just going to jump to a 25-06 or a 6.5-300 Weatherby. I do like the 223 WSSM but it would be considered overbore.
Barrel life isn't a concern. I know the barrel will be toast at some point. I bought the rifle used so don't have any idea how many rounds were on it at the time, but it shot pretty good for some time after I got it. I'll be happy with 1000-1500 rounds. The Douglas CM tube was delivered and installed in 3 weeks. The 4350's are on my list as well as RL17. The stock on this rifle is a B&C with aluminum bedding block and some unknown bedding compound in the recoil lug area.
The Varget data I see shows somewhat slow velocities. I haven't used Varget in this WSSM but have used RL-15 which resulted in very sooty cases at max book charges. How was the accuracy with Varget. I'll trade accuracy for velocity any day.
Kurz
Silver $$ Contributor
Varget is one of the FAN BOY powders which is certain to ruin a barrel fast. It burns too hot and it's dirty.
In my 223 WSSM, I burn either Hodgden Hybrid 100V or VVN-165. Both of these powders are very cool burning and not dirty when used in a full case capacity. I will add that I don't shoot any of the light or medium weight bullets at all. With this case capacity, I use the Hornady 90 gr. A-tips and the Sierra 90 gr. MK. This is all through a 26" 1:7" Bartlein. These are not screaming velocities but moderate, accurate loads for 600 to 1,000 yards. I do shoot the A-tips for antelope though...
Enjoy!
In my 223 WSSM, I burn either Hodgden Hybrid 100V or VVN-165. Both of these powders are very cool burning and not dirty when used in a full case capacity. I will add that I don't shoot any of the light or medium weight bullets at all. With this case capacity, I use the Hornady 90 gr. A-tips and the Sierra 90 gr. MK. This is all through a 26" 1:7" Bartlein. These are not screaming velocities but moderate, accurate loads for 600 to 1,000 yards. I do shoot the A-tips for antelope though...
Enjoy!
I won't be shooting any of the heavy's as will most likely be limiting bullet weight to 55 grains or so. That's why I chose a 1-9 twist rather than anything faster. With that, I think VV165 and 100V are too slow but VV does list 140 & 150, which I do not have, as suitable for the varmint weights.Varget is one of the FAN BOY powders which is certain to ruin a barrel fast. It burns too hot and it's dirty.
In my 223 WSSM, I burn either Hodgden Hybrid 100V or VVN-165. Both of these powders are very cool burning and not dirty when used in a full case capacity. I will add that I don't shoot any of the light or medium weight bullets at all. With this case capacity, I use the Hornady 90 gr. A-tips and the Sierra 90 gr. MK. This is all through a 26" 1:7" Bartlein. These are not screaming velocities but moderate, accurate loads for 600 to 1,000 yards. I do shoot the A-tips for antelope though...
Enjoy!
Slightly off my own topic...... Found out I needed a scope for this M70 as the Zeiss Conquest I originally had on it was repurposed. Amazon had a deal on an Arken EP5 5-25x56. I really didn't want to spend much on glass as this rifle isn't going to see high volume use anyway so went ahead and ordered it to see what all the noise being generated about Arken is all about.
Kurz
Silver $$ Contributor
There are several dozen 55 grain bullets available so the loads will have some variance based on bullet length and seating depth.
Selecting an average 55 grain bullet, Hodgden Hybrid 100V is still virtually perfect for a low temperature, reasonable velocity powder. Your choice of VVN-150 is in that same range although with a slightly warmer temperature. The VVN-140 I have as being too fast.
Enjoy the search!
If you can find any of there powders they're what I'd go with if 55 gr bullets are the ones you have in mind...
RL-16
H-4350
VV-150
VV-N550
H-4831sc ( Not as fast as others but accurate and good on barrels )
H-414 / W-760 ( if you prefer ball powders )
Hybrid 100V
And just about any other powder in that burn rate.
I still have some unopened bags of 223 WSSM Winchester brass for when I feel like building another.
First one I had was a factory Winchester rifle and wasn't too impressed with it.
RL-16
H-4350
VV-150
VV-N550
H-4831sc ( Not as fast as others but accurate and good on barrels )
H-414 / W-760 ( if you prefer ball powders )
Hybrid 100V
And just about any other powder in that burn rate.
I still have some unopened bags of 223 WSSM Winchester brass for when I feel like building another.
First one I had was a factory Winchester rifle and wasn't too impressed with it.
Zero333, I have H & IMR 4350 and H414. No 100V but do have AA2700 which I loaded back in the day with really good results. I have plenty of brass, including a bag of new Winchester. I've got some factory loads stashed away also but they will stay stashed. As my faded memory recalls, I chose H414 & AA2700 because of velocity potential and 2700 also gives velocity with low pressures. I'm starting with that powder. Although I don't see it listed, I'm wondering about VV555. It may be too slow for varmint weights and without known data I'd be the mad scientist.
VV-N555 will burn the barrel up quicker than the other powders you have on hand.
AA-2700 should work good, tho I've not used it personally, I can give you Quickload prediction with like a 55 gr SP.
AA-4350 is another good powder for this combo. But if H-414 / W-760 (same powders) are already giving you the velocity and accuracy you desire, there is no point in chasing your tail all over again.
=====================
SCREEN SHOT....
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COPY / PASTE Version...
Cartridge : .223 WSSM
Bullet : .224, 55, Hornady V-MAX FB 22271-72
Useable Case Capaci: 51.551 grain H2O = 3.347 cm³ ( total case capacity = 53.7 H2O )
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Accurate 2700
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-20.0 75 37.20 2997 1097 32288 8779 86.2 1.307
-18.0 77 38.13 3070 1151 34459 9060 87.6 1.274
-16.0 79 39.06 3144 1207 36770 9335 88.9 1.241
-14.0 81 39.99 3218 1265 39229 9602 90.2 1.203
-12.0 83 40.92 3292 1323 41846 9860 91.4 1.167
-10.0 84 41.85 3365 1383 44631 10108 92.5 1.131
-08.0 86 42.78 3439 1444 47597 10345 93.6 1.098
-06.0 88 43.71 3512 1507 50757 10571 94.6 1.065
-04.0 90 44.64 3586 1570 54125 10783 95.5 1.034
-02.0 92 45.57 3659 1635 57717 10982 96.3 1.004 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 94 46.50 3732 1701 61551 11166 97.1 0.975 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 96 47.43 3804 1767 65646 11334 97.8 0.947 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 98 48.36 3876 1835 70024 11486 98.4 0.920 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 99 49.29 3948 1904 74710 11620 98.9 0.894 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 101 50.22 4020 1973 79731 11735 99.3 0.869 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 103 51.15 4091 2044 85117 11831 99.6 0.844 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 94 46.50 3898 1855 71581 11151 99.8 0.908 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 94 46.50 3516 1510 51633 10728 91.1 1.061
============================
Any questions don't hesitate to ask, weather you want to see what QL predicts with other powders or whatever.
Cheers
Na Zdrowie (for good health)
Attachments
Since you went to the effort, this is what I experienced today, and it wasn't good. I loaded 28 rounds to go along with 25 rounds I had left from about 2010 or so. The leftover rounds were charged with 42.5 grains of RL-15, Rem 9 1/2 LRP, and a 50 grain Hornady A-Max bullet. The new rounds were charged with AA2700 from the same time frame, (2010 lot #). Hodgdon lists 43.2 start, 48.0 max. I loaded 46.5 to start, with CCI 200 and 55 grain Varmageddon. I also loaded 47.0, 47.5 & 47.8 based on Hodgdon data. Loads were seated to 2.220 oal. These loads were VERY HOT!! I forgot to chrono the 46.5 load but the 47.0 load gave me an average of 3936 fps. ES was 91 and SD was 35. Bolt lift was stiff and primers were slightly cratered but not at all flat. Accuracy was mediocre. The RL15 loads I used to zero the scope and only the last 7 were chronographed. Average was 4003 fps, ES 62, SD 20 and the cases were very sooty coming out of the chamber. Bolt lift was also stiff. Accuracy was ok but not stellar by any means. Looking at the data you provided above, it would seem my pressures were in the 70-75+K range. Uniformed guys at the range could not understand why I was unhappy with velocities 100-200 fps greater than expected. I may load more with the 2700 powder but charges will be greatly reduced if I do. I WILL be exploring some of the other powders suggested, ie: 4350, H414/W760..... and again will be starting low, low, low..... Thanks again for the Quickload data.VV-N555 will burn the barrel up quicker than the other powders you have on hand.
AA-2700 should work good, tho I've not used it personally, I can give you Quickload prediction with like a 55 gr SP.
AA-4350 is another good powder for this combo. But if H-414 / W-760 (same powders) are already giving you the velocity and accuracy you desire, there is no point in chasing your tail all over again.
=====================
SCREEN SHOT....
View attachment 1567369
==============================
COPY / PASTE Version...
Cartridge : .223 WSSM
Bullet : .224, 55, Hornady V-MAX FB 22271-72
Useable Case Capaci: 51.551 grain H2O = 3.347 cm³ ( total case capacity = 53.7 H2O )
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Accurate 2700
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-20.0 75 37.20 2997 1097 32288 8779 86.2 1.307
-18.0 77 38.13 3070 1151 34459 9060 87.6 1.274
-16.0 79 39.06 3144 1207 36770 9335 88.9 1.241
-14.0 81 39.99 3218 1265 39229 9602 90.2 1.203
-12.0 83 40.92 3292 1323 41846 9860 91.4 1.167
-10.0 84 41.85 3365 1383 44631 10108 92.5 1.131
-08.0 86 42.78 3439 1444 47597 10345 93.6 1.098
-06.0 88 43.71 3512 1507 50757 10571 94.6 1.065
-04.0 90 44.64 3586 1570 54125 10783 95.5 1.034
-02.0 92 45.57 3659 1635 57717 10982 96.3 1.004 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 94 46.50 3732 1701 61551 11166 97.1 0.975 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 96 47.43 3804 1767 65646 11334 97.8 0.947 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 98 48.36 3876 1835 70024 11486 98.4 0.920 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 99 49.29 3948 1904 74710 11620 98.9 0.894 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 101 50.22 4020 1973 79731 11735 99.3 0.869 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 103 51.15 4091 2044 85117 11831 99.6 0.844 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 94 46.50 3898 1855 71581 11151 99.8 0.908 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 94 46.50 3516 1510 51633 10728 91.1 1.061
============================
Any questions don't hesitate to ask, weather you want to see what QL predicts with other powders or whatever.
Cheers
Na Zdrowie (for good health)
Discovered something really strange. Using a Hornady case comparator I measured some factory loads as well as my new unfired brass. 1.273" new. Once fired, 1.285"! The shoulders are moving forward .012"! The sizing die only pushes back the shoulder about .001-.0015" with firm pressure onto the shell holder and several seconds dwell time. Measuring fired cases from the old barrel I get a similar measurement of 1.284-1.2845". Sized cases chamber with little to no bolt resistance. I am still waiting on a shell holder for my Giraud. The new cases were charged with H-4831SC as suggested. Hodgdon suggests 46.0 to start with 49.0 max. I loaded 5 each at 46.0, 47.0 & 48.0 and will see if the pressure issue persists. The 4831 was bought today and has a strong, fresh smell. The 2700 I used prior has less aroma so I now wonder if it has gone bad. 'Tis a puzzlement....
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