.223 vs. 5.56 brass

[Very fast]

Hello: Does anyone know if using 5.56 brass will allow for more velocity because it's stronger than .223 brass?
Thanks.

 

[people]

Safety is key. Just because you can does not mean you should.


It should but it is not a guarantee.

 

[spencerhenry]

who says it is stronger?

 

[CatShooter]

who says it is stronger?

I say it's stronger... and I measured it.

But to address the OP's question, the brass strength is not the limiting factor - the primer cup and firing pin spring are the most limiting factor.

Don't be a dumb bunny...

Watch for the usual suspects.

 

[bigedp51]

Hello: Does anyone know if using 5.56 brass will allow for more velocity because it's stronger than .223 brass?
Thanks.

Very fast

Lake City and commercial contract 5.56 ammunition is made harder in the base to better withstand being fired in larger diameter military chambers.

And because many people do not understand that NATO/European/CIP pressure taking standards are different they think the 5.56 cartridge is loaded to higher pressures. I have the military milspec requirements for commercial contract 5.56 ammunition and they are 52,000 CUP or 55,000 PSI. This is the same exact pressure as CIP NATO standards taken at the case mouth at 60,000 psi.

What makes Lake City 5.56 brass superior to commercial .223 brass is its hardness and base web design. Below in the center of the photo is a Federal .223 case and on the left and right are Lake City 5.56 cases.

The photo below is my scrap brass bucket and it is full of "ONCE" fired Federal .223/5.56 cases fired in a AR15 rifle with over sized primer pockets unfit for reloading. This brass was softer than Lake City and fired in a chamber .002 larger in diameter and lasted just one firing.

So to answer your question Lake City brass is very high quality and has more internal case capacity than most other cases, "BUT" it is still designed for 52,000 CUP or 55,000 PSI. I have two AR15 rifles and a bolt action Savage .223 and I do not load my ammo hot, I load my brass well below max to save wear and tear on my brass and rifles.

Your brass will tell you when it has reached its pressure limits because the brass will begin to stretch and flow, "AFTER" you have over loaded it and pushed the brass PAST it limits and it becomes junk.

Below overloaded .223/5.56 brass fired in a AR15 rifle

Below a workup load showing pressure increasing left to right.

Now you will need to decide what kind of case life you want from your brass. I take care of my Lake City brass and do not abuse it and it lasts a very long time.

I also drive a four cylinder Ford Escape and enjoy very good gas mileage, and got over hot rodding a long time ago.

Lake city brass is built Ford Truck Tough.

P.S. Forgive CatShooter he has a Rockwell hardness tester and "FORGOT" to post the hardness figures for the brands of cases........AGAIN!

 

[searcher]

I would think that because, in the example of military 5.56 brass which is thicker (in part to handle the higher pressure associated with some 5.56 loads) higher pressures are reached more quickly than with .223 brass which would have more case capacity. If I were going for the highest velocity in a .223, I'd use .223 brass. Of course, some brands of .223 brass are not as good as others.

 

[bigedp51]

I would think that because, in the example of military 5.56 brass which is thicker (in part to handle the higher pressure associated with some 5.56 loads) higher pressures are reached more quickly than with .223 brass which would have more case capacity. If I were going for the highest velocity in a .223, I'd use .223 brass. Of course, some brands of .223 brass are not as good as others.

Military 5.56 cases are "NOT" thicker they are made harder to better withstand larger diameter chambers. If the 5.56 cases were made thicker like 7.62 cases the internal capacity of the case would not be able to hold the desired powder charge and keep the same chamber pressure.

 

[Webster]

I am very familiar with hardness testing. How do you use a 2.5 kilogram load on the indenter on sheet metal?

 

[searcher]

Perhaps another better example would have been case capacity. From most of what I have read here and elsewhere, a lot of military 5.56 brass has less case capacity than commercial .223 brass. This has also been my own experience in comparing, say, Winchester or Remington commercial brass with that of TW or Lake City Military brass. Call it what one wants - but less case capacity and thicker tend to go together. Many long range shooters choose cases for their ability to stuff more powder in them - not for their durabiity. This is one of the reasons they are not using military brass when that is an option. I'd take the mil brass for durability in a torture test - yet that was not the question.

 

[CatShooter]

I am very familiar with hardness testing. How do you use a 2.5 kilogram load on the indenter on sheet metal?

The hardness is tested on the head - the hardness on the body is of little consequence because it is against a LOT of steel.... it functions like a bag to hold the powder... it does not restrain anything.

 

[nastynatesfish]

This is going to get interesting

 

[Very fast]

Thank you everyone for your input on 5.56 brass. I plan to use a new Ruger Ranch rifle, which is chambered for the 5.56, to shoot plastic bottles full of water. My experience doing this has been with a very good Freedom Arms .357 Mag. revolver shooting 88 gr. Remington hollow points with Blue Dot powder and small Winchester rifle primers. The load worked very well but problems with my right elbow makes it impossible to continue with this. So the switch to the Ranch rifle. I plan to use 40 gr. hollow points and wanted to get the most velocity possible that's safe. It appears that Lake City brass would be the best choice. I'm not concerned with barrel life so very fast loads will be the goal. Thanks again.

 

[Webster]

The chart gave hardness from the head to the neck. Not just head data. Refering to biged51 graph not your head hardness you posted.

 

[CharlieNC]

My measurements confirm the charts linked on the home page here. Unlike the 308, LC223 haas the highest capacity.

 

[searcher]

In your semi-auto, L/C is great

 

[searcher]

Charlienc: I see a lot of people come up with that same conclusion, yet with the lots of brass I have, I have certain loads I use in a couple of my rifles using Winchester brass as I can't get enough of the same powder into the cases of L/C. I have friends who also choose non-military in .223 for this very reason. This seems to be like the opinions of who's primers are hottest (this month). It just depends upon the lot and the maker and not so much as "that's the way it is" which is so often said. Measure out case capacity of five types of brass and it probably won't align with what someone else's study shows using their lots.

 

[bigedp51]

I wonder who you can trust, this website, and my own tests that mirror the info below.

223 Rem + 223 AI Cartridge Guide

http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/223rem/

And are my three five gallon buckets of .223/5.56 brass good enough for a statistical analysis weighted average. :

Or why the civilian brass for the M16 rifle was part of the M16 jamming problem. And why the military set higher standards for its 5.56 cases.

P.S. Eat your heart out Catshooter, my wife and I are leaving tonight for a Caribbean cruise, and it was 88 degrees in Aruba today! ;D

P.P.S And tell Boyd Allen I was cold weather testing my Enfield bench rest rifle yesterday.

I had a bad day and had two fliers.

 

[Very fast]

Thank you again everyone for the additional information. I'm planning on shooting the new Ranch rifle when warm spring days are here, and I'm looking forward to loading for the rifle.

 

[LoganDon]

Hello: Does anyone know if using 5.56 brass will allow for more velocity because it's stronger than .223 brass?
Thanks.

Great article.

Lake City and commercial contract 5.56 ammunition is made harder in the base to better withstand being fired in larger diameter military chambers.

And because many people do not understand that NATO/European/CIP pressure taking standards are different they think the 5.56 cartridge is loaded to higher pressures. I have the military milspec requirements for commercial contract 5.56 ammunition and they are 52,000 CUP or 55,000 PSI. This is the same exact pressure as CIP NATO standards taken at the case mouth at 60,000 psi.

What makes Lake City 5.56 brass superior to commercial .223 brass is its hardness and base web design. Below in the center of the photo is a Federal .223 case and on the left and right are Lake City 5.56 cases.

The photo below is my scrap brass bucket and it is full of "ONCE" fired Federal .223/5.56 cases fired in a AR15 rifle with over sized primer pockets unfit for reloading. This brass was softer than Lake City and fired in a chamber .002 larger in diameter and lasted just one firing.

So to answer your question Lake City brass is very high quality and has more internal case capacity than most other cases, "BUT" it is still designed for 52,000 CUP or 55,000 PSI. I have two AR15 rifles and a bolt action Savage .223 and I do not load my ammo hot, I load my brass well below max to save wear and tear on my brass and rifles.

Your brass will tell you when it has reached its pressure limits because the brass will begin to stretch and flow, "AFTER" you have over loaded it and pushed the brass PAST it limits and it becomes junk.

Below overloaded .223/5.56 brass fired in a AR15 rifle

Below a workup load showing pressure increasing left to right.

Now you will need to decide what kind of case life you want from your brass. I take care of my Lake City brass and do not abuse it and it lasts a very long time.

I also drive a four cylinder Ford Escape and enjoy very good gas mileage, and got over hot rodding a long time ago.

Lake city brass is built Ford Truck Tough.

P.S. Forgive CatShooter he has a Rockwell hardness tester and "FORGOT" to post the hardness figures for the brands of cases........AGAIN!