I am looking direction and advice on turning necks on a .223 Remington for improved accuracy. I have a Savage Model 12 LRVP with a 1 in 9" factory barrel with a factory cut chamber. Is there any known improvement with a rifle like this in turning the necks down to a smaller diameter. If so what would that diameter be? At present I am neck sizing to .248. My choice of brass is Lapua. I use Benchmark for lighter bullets (52, 53, 55's) and Varget for heavy bullets (69, 70VLD, & 73's). I just boughta jug of Accurate LT-32 and will try it with the lighter bullets. I am also seating .008 to .010 off the lans. Thanks and all suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks, Richard
.223 Remington Neck turning information and advice.
- Thread starter rramsey
- Start date
With a factory chambered barrel I seriously doubt if you'll gain any accuracy by neck turning. In fact if you have prepped your barss and trimmed it to a consistant length your most likely better off contine doing what is working for you. Neck turning your brass will likely result in overworking your brass due to to much neck clearance. I've seen several factory Savage model 12 that would rconsistantly shoot sub 0.4 moa with good reloads. In fact I prefer my custom barrels to chambered with no turn necks for .223 based cartridges that will be used for high volume shooting.
RJ.
RJ.
The extra working of the brass and the questionable gain in accuracy is precisely the reason I have not bought a neck turner for my AR15 (Krieger 223) and Howa bolt action. Another member here demonstrated for me his 21CenturyShooting turner and I like the tool, but until a better chamber, no point. Choice of bullets, powders, cases, primers, distance off lands, and quality of loaded ammo (technique and tools) are where I am spending my efforts.
Phil
Phil
GPat
Site $$ Sponsor
The best reason to neck turn is to get consistent neck tension and bullet release, you see improvements in accuracy for that reason regardless of a custom chamber or factory. If the brass is pretty consistent to begin with, the accuracy gains you see will be less than if the neck thickness varies a lot. I've actually seen a pretty big difference in accuracy between neck turning and not neck turning in a factory Savage 223. I use Winchester brass for my Savage 223 and the last batch I made cleaned up 100% at .0110" (that was a couple of years back, so I'm not sure what thickness to use on current brass). I still neck size for this rifle (full-length sizing every 4th firing) and shoot Berger or Bart's 52 grain bullets. I won't share the load, but it's N133 and it's pretty hot. LT32 should work well as the burn rate is quite similar to N133 and is clean burning as well.
One year I tried neck turning in a Kreiger barreled AR15 NRA Match Rifle and did not see any improvement to my scores. I was however, a lot more careful when policing my brass.
Pat
One year I tried neck turning in a Kreiger barreled AR15 NRA Match Rifle and did not see any improvement to my scores. I was however, a lot more careful when policing my brass.
Pat
When I neck turn my brass I only remove about 70 percent on the heavy side of the neck for a bit better neck tension. With factory chamber it might not be worth all the trouble as others have mentioned but it is something I enjoy and it lets me know I have done one more thing for consistant reloads. 
If you asked me, I would tell you do not mess with turning. this is a commercially produced 223 rifle.with a commercially machined barrel. It shoots better without turning. leave the brass alone. be more concerned with runout.
GPat
Site $$ Sponsor
I neck turn everything (except for AR15 brass), whether it needs it or not ;D. But, another thing to consider is your sizing dies, and this would be the determining factor for me if it were my rifle (and I didn't already neck turn everything). If you are using a bushing style sizing die, toss out the expander button and definitely neck turn. If you are using a standard Redding/RCBS/Hornady/Lee, etc... sizing die then neck turning is a toss-up and something you may not see big improvements in doing.
Pat
Pat
GSPV
A failure to plan is a plan for failure.
From the 6BR page on this site http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/6mmbr/
"The collective wisdom is evolving on this issue. Originally, 6BR shooters emulated what works for the 6PPC–tight .262″ necks with a .009″ or so neck wall thickness. Now the trend is in the other direction. Many shooters have had great success with .268-.269″ necks that allow full neck uniforming with a cut up into the shoulder to block the formation of doughnuts. That said, we are now seeing very accurate rifles being built with .271-.272″ and even .274″ chambers that allow Lapua 6mm BR brass to be loaded and shot with no neck-turning. The results have been encouraging to say the least. Richard Schatz recently set a 1000-yard world record with a .271″-necked 6mm Dasher. And there is evidence that the longer VLD bullets work best with the greater neck tension allowed by unturned or minimally-turned brass. One well-known shooter says he has seen no loss of accuracy since changing to no-turn necks, and that’s how he will chamber all his future barrels. However, most top smiths still recommend turning necks, but not down to .262″. A .269″ chamber appears to be a good compromise, allowing a quick, easy one-pass turn without sacrificing beneficial neck tension. For a varmint or tactical rifle, the choice is clear, however–go with a no-turn neck so you can spend more time shooting and less time reloading. Both the Lapua and the Norma brass are good enough that you will give up very little accuracy."
"The collective wisdom is evolving on this issue. Originally, 6BR shooters emulated what works for the 6PPC–tight .262″ necks with a .009″ or so neck wall thickness. Now the trend is in the other direction. Many shooters have had great success with .268-.269″ necks that allow full neck uniforming with a cut up into the shoulder to block the formation of doughnuts. That said, we are now seeing very accurate rifles being built with .271-.272″ and even .274″ chambers that allow Lapua 6mm BR brass to be loaded and shot with no neck-turning. The results have been encouraging to say the least. Richard Schatz recently set a 1000-yard world record with a .271″-necked 6mm Dasher. And there is evidence that the longer VLD bullets work best with the greater neck tension allowed by unturned or minimally-turned brass. One well-known shooter says he has seen no loss of accuracy since changing to no-turn necks, and that’s how he will chamber all his future barrels. However, most top smiths still recommend turning necks, but not down to .262″. A .269″ chamber appears to be a good compromise, allowing a quick, easy one-pass turn without sacrificing beneficial neck tension. For a varmint or tactical rifle, the choice is clear, however–go with a no-turn neck so you can spend more time shooting and less time reloading. Both the Lapua and the Norma brass are good enough that you will give up very little accuracy."
searcher
Gold $$ Contributor
I strongly agree with GPAT in that whether turning the necks makes sense partially depends upon whether you are using a good neck bushing die (or at least not your typical, inexpensive die which has an expander ball). Using such a die is typically counter-productive to concentric rounds and the work put into necks otherwise - with rare exception. You can see that many readers don't think it is worthwhile. To say that turning does not help is to say that turning does not improve uniformity. The real question is whether a person is willing to spend the time for a small improvement. One can spend lots of time for many small improvements - which all can add up big time.
As for not turning because of your barrel being factory, don't let anyone dismiss your barrel as being crap just because it is factory! You should be able to obtain some improvement in a factory barrel just as you would a custom, granted a similar measure of improvement is not as impressive when taking it off of 3/4" as opposed to 1/4", for example. When people "can't see the difference", it is surely because either the amount is so small that, combined with other factors such as wind, temperature changes, etc. - the difference gets lost in these factors OR they already had very uniform brass. After turning most brass the first time and seeing how non-uniform it is, it is hard to not want to turn everything. You can use a tubing micrometer to effectively "sort out" all cases that don't measure up to the parameters you set - and to find the three or four cases that are really bad in a box. It is, in my experience, more time consuming to do properly than turning the necks once over.
As for not turning because of your barrel being factory, don't let anyone dismiss your barrel as being crap just because it is factory! You should be able to obtain some improvement in a factory barrel just as you would a custom, granted a similar measure of improvement is not as impressive when taking it off of 3/4" as opposed to 1/4", for example. When people "can't see the difference", it is surely because either the amount is so small that, combined with other factors such as wind, temperature changes, etc. - the difference gets lost in these factors OR they already had very uniform brass. After turning most brass the first time and seeing how non-uniform it is, it is hard to not want to turn everything. You can use a tubing micrometer to effectively "sort out" all cases that don't measure up to the parameters you set - and to find the three or four cases that are really bad in a box. It is, in my experience, more time consuming to do properly than turning the necks once over.
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