223 rem group at 300 yd ?

[boltman223]

Wondering what you guys think? Do I need to worry about my load being out of tune? I switched lot # of varget, I went to the range to test/verify everything is good to go.

10 shot group at 300yds 1.125" vertical. One shot opened it from 1" to 1.125, which was my 3rd shot (the highest one on top). Wth my previous lot, two different groups (the only two) I shot at 300 were 1.04 and 1.06. Do I need to worry about this little bit, it could have been me that caused the difference. If it my load was out of tune would my group be bigger? I would do some more testing but, I don't have time before my match on Saturday. Thanks in advance

 

[chkunz]

You did not say what type of competition you will be shooting but if you are shooting the NRA or CMP National Match Course the X ring is 3 inches and your groups are well within that. Statically speaking there is no difference in the groups that you quote for the limited data that you have. So you should consider the results the same. Mother Nature is a bitch. One other consideration for future planning, Varget is a very popular powder (I assume you are shooting 223) but I did not get as good accuracy and velocity with it for the 75, 77, 80 grain bullets as some other powders and at 300 and 600 yards you want both accuracy and velocity out of your load. Take care, Clyde.

 

[boltman223]

Thanks Clyde,

Yeah, I'm shooting a 223 in f-tr. I agree, mother nature is a pain in the butt! And there is always the shooter variable when it comes to me lol. And I would think that roughly .100 movement of impact would be easy to induce at 300 yds.

What kind of vertical do you get at 300yds with your 223? I'm curious to what other people are getting too. Is one inch mediocre? And maybe it's not fair to compare to 6br's and the like?

 

[Keith Glasscock]

At 300, you will be fine. I aim for 1 inch or less vertical (10 shots), but it doesn't always happen even with a good load.

Yes, a BR is capable of going inside an inch. I have a Dasher that has shot .5" groups at 300, but that is not necessary to be competetive at 300. The X ring is 1.42" in diameter. Looks like all of your shots would be in if not for windage.

I'd just shoot it.

 

[chkunz]

Thanks Clyde,

Yeah, I'm shooting a 223 in f-tr. I agree, mother nature is a pain in the butt! And there is always the shooter variable when it comes to me lol. And I would think that roughly .100 movement of impact would be easy to induce at 300 yds.

What kind of vertical do you get at 300yds with your 223? I'm curious to what other people are getting too. Is one inch mediocre? And maybe it's not fair to compare to 6br's and the like?

I shoot the National Match Course which is prone rapid fire at 300 in the conventional prone position with the sling and I shoot the M14 so it is not comparable to what you are doing. But to answer your question my groups are about the size of the ten ring which is seven inches, the difficulty is keeping the groups centered. A couple of years ago I built an AR match rifle in 223 and have been shooting some NMC and mid range matches with it with a scope and I can shoot groups about half the size of the M14 at 300 and 600 yards with this set up. But I am shooting at a target that has the scoring rings that are about double the size as to what you are shooting at.

 

[Patos]

T-Rex...What other powders did you prefer for 77 grain bullets in 223? Since Varget is hard to find here. Thanks

 

[chkunz]

T-Rex...What other powders did you prefer for 77 grain bullets in 223? Since Varget is hard to find here. Thanks

For a 20 inch WOA 1in8 match barrel we got the best results (best combination of accuracy and velocity) for magazine length ammo for the short range 300 yard rapid fire stage with the 77 SMK and N140. H4895, MR 2520 and RE 15 also worked well for this application. The pet load for this configuration for the 600 yard stage was with the 80 SMK and MR-2520 but RE 15 and H4895 also worked well.

The pet load for a similar barrel of 26 inches in length was with 75 grain Hornady BTHP and RE 15 for the short range rapid fire load but the 77 SMK with RE 15 and N140 also worked well. The pet load for 600 yards for this configuration was the 75 A-MAX with MR 2520 but H4895 and N140 also worked well. Again we were looking for the best combination of accuracy and velocity. We shot multiple 10 shot groups with these loads. We used mean radius for measuring group size. Send me a PM if you would like the full report with all the data but all most folks want is the Executive Summary which I posted on this forum a few days ago. Some folks said it was all a waste of time but did not offer any data. Take care, Clyde.

 

[22BRGUY]

Another suggestion: Recheck your scope parallax very very closely if you haven't already. I've found that taking the time to adjust and very fine tune the parallax has given good results on otherwise mediocre loads, although what you're shooting there is very respectable. Best Wishes

 

[boltman223]

I wanted to report back with my findings with the new lot of varget in case there was somebody wondering. I saw no difference on the target than the previous lot. Previous to starting this thread I had heard of people having problems with such but, I guess there is no needto worry. Thanks for the replies

 

[WindSurgeon]

Shooting is like golf. Always a million variables and something to improve. 1.25 vertical at 300 is actually good. Your group looks to me like slightly different points of aim, tracking in the bags, slightly differing charge weights or engagement variability with the lands. Out of your control... could be the wind if you kept your point of aim the same. If you go after these, only go after one at a time to see what has an impact. Also go when there is absolutely calm conditions if you can.

For reference, I have an AR that I built myself in .223/5.56 and it will hold .25 MOA vertical if I do my job of reloading meticulously and use great technique. I use Varget and 80 grain VLD's. Unfortunately/fortunately it is a never ending quest. Once a great load was dialed in, I ended up with unusual issues with my Lapua brass exhibiting pressure signs after just a few loadings and now am back to the drawing board working up a new load at a lower velocity node. :-\