.223 LRPV small chamber ?

[zap]

I have a new to me lrpv in .223. Previous owner said only around 200 rnds thru it.
The first time I tried a reload in it, ( which is a load for my other savage bvss ), i was able to close the bolt, but felt a little resistance. I took the shot and when i went to eject the spent round, i could not get the bolt open. So I get into this forum and immediately get a few responses. The 1st one said to hit the bolt handle lightly with a rubber mallot.
I got it out with a few light taps, no problem. At the time, i just figured that i will need to make sure to resize my brass. I figured that the head space could be different than my other rifle, which it probably is.
Well, today I resized a case in my body die as much as I could cam the press over and i am still getting cases stuck in my chamber. ( just unprimed brass ). It is not a head space problem, as i measure the case bottom to the shoulder angle with a gauge. I have some factory lapua loaded ammo that fits no problem at all. I can chamber those empties and eject them no issue at all. So I took the measurement from those rounds that do fit, so i have something to go by for reference.

The only thing that I see that is an issue is the diameter of the cases right near the case head. The ones that will chamber are .001 - .002 smaller.

I believe that either my chamber is too tight or the die is too big in diameter. I am leaning to the chamber being the issue, since the body die works fine in other 223 guns i have.
My die set is the reading bushing die set.
I took about .010 off of my shell holder so the brass would go up into the die farther and hopefully squeeze the case down some more. I can just get it to chamber and eject but it is going so far up in the die now, that the bottom shoulder angle is getting slightly rounded. So that is not good.

Also, when I push a pc of resized brass up all the way into the chamber with my finger, and look up in there, it looks like it is sticking out more than the .125 that is the norm. But I cannot verify that without having my action off to measure.

Has anyone ever experienced this issue with the lrpv chambers ???

 

[grovey]

From what you said... my take is you're using fired ( multiple firings?) brass from another rifle. That chamber may be larger in the web area. You say new brass fits before and after firing, and that seems to go along with that theory. If you have a small base die hit'em with that and see what happens after firing them. They'll probably be ok, but me thinks you should be using brass dedicated to that rifle either way.

 

[zap]

Hmm, a small base die . Do they only size the diameter , and not push the shoulder back ?? If thats the case, I will need to call Reading and get one ordered.
I have 200 pcs of lapua brass, yes shot in another rifle, and want to dedicate 100 for my lrpv rifle. I Do not see an issue if i can get them to fit, then i will have fire formed brass to that chamber after they are all shot thru it, I would think.
Thank you for replying.

 

[grovey]

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...th-dies-neck-sizing-dies-and-small-base-dies/

 

[Cory porter]

I have a new to me lrpv in .223. Previous owner said only around 200 rnds thru it.
The first time I tried a reload in it, ( which is a load for my other savage bvss ), i was able to close the bolt, but felt a little resistance. I took the shot and when i went to eject the spent round, i could not get the bolt open. So I get into this forum and immediately get a few responses. The 1st one said to hit the bolt handle lightly with a rubber mallot.
I got it out with a few light taps, no problem. At the time, i just figured that i will need to make sure to resize my brass. I figured that the head space could be different than my other rifle, which it probably is.
Well, today I resized a case in my body die as much as I could cam the press over and i am still getting cases stuck in my chamber. ( just unprimed brass ). It is not a head space problem, as i measure the case bottom to the shoulder angle with a gauge. I have some factory lapua loaded ammo that fits no problem at all. I can chamber those empties and eject them no issue at all. So I took the measurement from those rounds that do fit, so i have something to go by for reference.

The only thing that I see that is an issue is the diameter of the cases right near the case head. The ones that will chamber are .001 - .002 smaller.

I believe that either my chamber is too tight or the die is too big in diameter. I am leaning to the chamber being the issue, since the body die works fine in other 223 guns i have.
My die set is the reading bushing die set.
I took about .010 off of my shell holder so the brass would go up into the die farther and hopefully squeeze the case down some more. I can just get it to chamber and eject but it is going so far up in the die now, that the bottom shoulder angle is getting slightly rounded. So that is not good.

Also, when I push a pc of resized brass up all the way into the chamber with my finger, and look up in there, it looks like it is sticking out more than the .125 that is the norm. But I cannot verify that without having my action off to measure.

Has anyone ever experienced this issue with the lrpv chambers ???

I purchased once fired lake city brass fully processed for a rifle of mine had the same problem. Small base body die (Redding) fixed it.

 

[zap]

Ok great news.
I just watched a video on small base dies. Yep, that is what i will need to get !!
Thank you very much fellas !

 

[Texas10]

You're absolutely correct when thinking the two chambers are different. Although the same caliber and chambering, they can be as different as night and day because the same reamer was not used in both.

You may also have a tight chamber in the LRPV. Further hand load development may confirm this as tight chambers produce higher pressures sooner in load development. But using a hand load in two different guns, can result in bad things happening fast. What you experienced (bolt stuck) was on the mild side.

Are you checking/trimming the overall length after sizing?

My suggestions are: Buy new brass, prep and dedicate to only one gun. Shoot and see if it'll still chamber afterward, then neck size only. Load and repeat.

I have dozens of loadings on my 223 brass, mostly Federal or Winchester that I use in Savage and Criterion chambers. I never FL size, never have to trim but I do anneal it when the necks get work hardened. It never gets stuck in the chamber, never a hard bolt drop or a split neck and it is capable of shoot groups in the zeros and ones. But I shoot at a public range, no wind flags, wobbly bench, and a guy next to me with a muzzle brake on a 16 in barrel blowing my ear protectors off with each shot, so although I CAN'T shoot that well, the load is capable.

The less you work the brass, the longer it'll last and the more consistent results you'll get. Small base dies are useful when buying range brass and being prepped for the first time, especially for an autoloader. IMOP they have no place in bolt gun load development as you'll be overworking the brass every time you run it through the die.

 

[zap]

I borrowed a friends die and his will indeed let my case easily chamber and eject. His reading die has a different number on it, although it is a bushing die just like mine. I am going to call Redding and see what the deal has s and get one that will work.

 

[rebs]

I use an RCBS standard 223 die and have never had any problems loading for twp AR's and one bolt gun. I think the problem is your redding die.

 

[dickn52]

Off subject a little. You guys teach me something new every day. I had this issue with my Sav 12 LRPV Left port/rt bolt. Only on Winchester brass it seemed. So I bought a small base die two days ago, installed today and ran 23 pcs through it. ALL Winchester for a test. Every single one chambered perfectly. So, maybe Savage makes tight chambers after all...

 

[AZROY]

I use an RCBS standard 223 die and have never had any problems loading for twp AR's and one bolt gun. I think the problem is your redding die.

I had the same problem with fired cases from 20 Practical. The Redding bushing die does not adequately resize near case head. My problem resolved by resizing with Rcbs die (guts removed) followed by Redding die. Extra step but it works. A small base die will work but I believe it over works the brass too much and shortens life.

 

[Uncle Ed]

Chambers and dies vary in size, as a example I have a standard Lee full length die that will reduce the body diameter more than my RCBS .223 small base die.

I also buy bulk once fired Lake City 5.56 and 7.62 brass fired in a multitude of different chambers. All these Lake City cases are first resized with a small base die to bring them back to minimum SAAMI dimensions. If you pause at the top of the ram stroke for 4 or 5 seconds it will greatly reduce brass spring back.

Below three types of Forster .308 Winchester dies with explanations.

Below I can tell you various .223 dies I have do vary in size, meaning in diameter and how far they can bump the shoulder back. At the time this photo was taken I was reloading for three AR15 rifles and two .223 bolt action rifles.

NOTE, in a semi-auto rifle the resized case should be .003 to .005 smaller in diameter than its fired diameter. This allows the case to spring back from the chamber walls and extract reliably. The key words are brass spring back after sizing "AND" sizing cases fired in another chamber can cause problems if not sized with the correct die.

 

[mikecr]

I'm on another side of the fence. To me it sounds just opposite of discussed so far.
If the near web diameters are growing 1-2thou, it's not a tight chamber and/or you're lacking in breech support. The cases have expanded so far as to yield at that, and springing back less, while the chamber will spring back.

A small base die will get cases back in the chamber, but will it really address the problem or just work the hell out of your brass and leave expanding primer pockets?
I suggest this alternate view because I've thoroughly tested a far larger diameter case in a fitted chamber at SAAMI max pressure(65Kpsi). Over 50 reloads so far with zero case body sizing, and no issues whatsoever.
'Fitted' for me is 1thou over NEW brass dimensions -everywhere. With this, the cases just spring back to new dimensions, never yielding. This is also a coned breech magnum diameter BAT action.
Having witnessed this working so successfully, I'm left to question common notions about chambers being too tight.

Back in my day, it was common for hot rod mechanics to think they were breaking cranks, rods, and pistons because clearances were too tight. Obviously tight enough to cause interference with continued reliability, right?
Wrong.
Their problems were due to clearances that were already too sloppy. They were NEVER right to open them further. Smokey Yunick proved this, and today our everyday engines are far more reliable because of it (not better machining or materials). Smarter design.