.223 Bolt Gun Bullet?

[Kracken McGraw]

I have a 8 twist barrel rifle and l like the way a 69 grain SMK bullet fits in the neck when loaded.
Question is I have bought some Hornady 75 grain hpbt match bullets and these things sit way deep in the case. I have just loaded some to do a seating test and have not shot them. Any negatives to these deep seated bullets or just shoot them and get this out of my mind?

 

[SecondsCount]

The ogive on the 75 BTHP works pretty well in situations where it needs to jump, such as an AR-15 application. In a bolt gun, unless the magazine is a limitation, I would adjust seating depth to whatever the barrel shoots best with.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

You should be fine. The top cartridge is a Black Hills .223 with 77 grain bullet from the factory and it shoots just fine. The bottom cartridge is loaded with a 77 grain bullet for an Urbanrifleman ISSF chamber.

View attachment 1458640

Thanks for that!
I like to get a few experienced opinions when I get into uncharted water.

 

[JB10]

It wiill be fine. That bullet was designed to be shot at AR mag length. I shoot them in one of my ARs. Should be fine in a bolt rifle.

 

[Zero333]

I have no issues with the 75 gr Hornady BTHP match projectiles seated deep in the case. I use them in a R-700 and it has little freebore, thus I have to seat them deep.

The Hornady factory " Black " 75 gr ammo is seated very deep and it shoots phenomenal.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Thanks for all of your replies and help!

 

[urbanrifleman]

You should be fine. The top cartridge is a Black Hills .223 with 77 grain bullet from the factory and it shoots just fine. The bottom cartridge is loaded with a 77 grain bullet for an Urbanrifleman ISSF chamber.

View attachment 1458640

It shoots fine because the brass is brand new and doesn't have a donut.

Reloaders need to be aware of the fact that if they're loading below the pressure ring they're only going to get a few resizing before they develop some form of a donut and that is going to detract from their accuracy and if they load with pressure ring below it.

This has little to no effect in brand new brass.

I think that's where a lot of the confusion lies. I would not reload below the donut in brass that has several firings and resizing cycles on it. Not if I would like to keep my sanity.

 

[K22]

I have to seat Hornaday Vmax bullets much deeper than Nosler's and Sierra's due to the secant ogives of the Hornady's. The only exception is with my Remington 700's which have comparably greater free bore.

For example, in my custom Hart barrel, 243 Win, I have to seat the 75 Vmax to 2.600 to avoid a jam. I have a similar situation with the 60 Vmax in my non-Remington 700 223's. Yet, they shoot very well, and I have no pressure signs.

Incidentally, in my 8" twist 223 Tikka's, the 60 Vmax with H4895 or Varget shoots in the 1/2 to sub 1/2 moa range.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

It shoots fine because the brass is brand new and doesn't have a donut.

Reloaders need to be aware of the fact that if they're loading below the pressure ring they're only going to get a few resizing before they develop some form of a donut and that is going to detract from their accuracy and if they load with pressure ring below it.

This has little to no effect in brand new brass.

I think that's where a lot of the confusion lies. I would not reload below the donut in brass that has several firings and resizing cycles on it. Not if I would like to keep my sanity.

I hope that’s my gain by using a regular FL sizing die with an expander ball. It should keep a donut pushed out to be trimmed at length.

 

[K22]

It shoots fine because the brass is brand new and doesn't have a donut.

Reloaders need to be aware of the fact that if they're loading below the pressure ring they're only going to get a few resizing before they develop some form of a donut and that is going to detract from their accuracy and if they load with pressure ring below it.

This has little to no effect in brand new brass.

I think that's where a lot of the confusion lies. I would not reload below the donut in brass that has several firings and resizing cycles on it. Not if I would like to keep my sanity.

Could you please elaborate on this especially "reloading below the pressure ring". Trying to learn more about this issue. Thanks in advance for your expertise.

PS: Despite loading literally thousands of bottle neck rifle cartridges over the past 50+ years, I never experienced a "donut" in the case, as far as I can determine, but I want to avoid it. I use standard RCBS Full Length sizing dies with standard expander balls but the latter polished and sized to minimize drag on the neck. Also, all bullets are seated to the full depth of the neck. Also, I am just a varmint / predator hunting and recreational target shooter these days but I want to avoid problems.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I hope that’s my gain by using a regular FL sizing die with an expander ball. It should keep a donut pushed out to be trimmed at length.

That's true. Keep in mind that it's still there. And it does change your neck tension because the neck is getting thicker and thicker. This is why I'm an advocate of staying far away from that area by using a little bit more free bore.

The best solution is to get a free board that's appropriate for the bullets you shoot to keep it away from the donut. I absolutely believe this increases performance over time and certainly lowers frustration. That's just my advice.

 

[243Lapua]

You should be good even if the bullet seats deep into the neck. I have a 8 twist also, but I use 77 smk's with Lapua Brass, 205m, H4895 @ 23gr. It is a very accurate round. I bought some N140 to try so I can put away my H4895, it's been hard to find. I'm down to my last 4lbs.

 

[243Lapua]

You should be good even if the bullet seats deep into the neck. I have a 8 twist also, but I use 77 smk's with Lapua Brass, 205m, H4895 @ 23gr. It is a very accurate round. I bought some N140 to try so I can put away my H4895, it's been hard to find. I'm down to my last 4lbs.

Now that I remember I did add some freebore for the specific bullet, Speedy did me the favor of lending me a throat cutter, really simple task to accomplish.

 

[SecondsCount]

You should be good even if the bullet seats deep into the neck. I have a 8 twist also, but I use 77 smk's with Lapua Brass, 205m, H4895 @ 23gr. It is a very accurate round. I bought some N140 to try so I can put away my H4895, it's been hard to find. I'm down to my last 4lbs.

N140 is a good powder for the 77 SMK.

 

[Mark W]

It shoots fine because the brass is brand new and doesn't have a donut.

Reloaders need to be aware of the fact that if they're loading below the pressure ring they're only going to get a few resizing before they develop some form of a donut and that is going to detract from their accuracy and if they load with pressure ring below it.

This has little to no effect in brand new brass.

I think that's where a lot of the confusion lies. I would not reload below the donut in brass that has several firings and resizing cycles on it. Not if I would like to keep my sanity.

@urbanrifleman i believe that I have recently experienced this phenomenon with my 12 twist zero freebore 6mm BRA. I built the rifle with the intent of shooting 55-70 grain varmint bullets, which it did very well. Later I figured out that it also shot exceptionally well with Barts and Hillbilly 80 grain boat tails. The boat tail leaves a little extra room, but is still very close to the donut area.

I fired a batch of brass 3 times without issue. On the 4th firing, I started having seating depth consistency issues. On the 5th firing the seating depth issues worsened and the accuracy suffered.

I tried loading some 70 grain bullets and they seated consistently and shot the same as always leading be to believe that it is donut issues affecting the 80 grain bullets.

 

[urbanrifleman]

@urbanrifleman i believe that I have recently experienced this phenomenon with my 12 twist zero freebore 6mm BRA. I built the rifle with the intent of shooting 55-70 grain varmint bullets, which it did very well. Later I figured out that it also shot exceptionally well with Barts and Hillbilly 80 grain boat tails. The boat tail leaves a little extra room, but is still very close to the donut area.

I fired a batch of brass 3 times without issue. On the 4th firing, I started having seating depth consistency issues. On the 5th firing the seating depth issues worsened and the accuracy suffered.

I tried loading some 70 grain bullets and they seated consistently and shot the same as always leading be to believe that it is donut issues affecting the 80 grain bullets.

Yup!!!

That's it!!!

 

[Kracken McGraw]

I shot six of these tonight at 300 steel. All seemed good and pretty accurate, dialed 4 3/4 moa. 21.8 grains of 8208 averaged 2770 FPS at .017 in from touch.

 

[karrarararararar]

I shot six of these tonight at 300 steel. All seemed good and pretty accurate, dialed 4 3/4 moa. 21.8 grains of 8208 averaged 2770 FPS at .017 in from touch.

What's your barrel length? That's some good velocity for a charge weight below where a lot of people run 8202. I'm curios what the standard 23.2gr a lot of people shoot would chrono at.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

What's your barrel length? That's some good velocity for a charge weight below where a lot of people run 8202. I'm curios what the standard 23.2gr a lot of people shoot would chrono at.

It’s a 25 inch Bartlein 5r 8 twist at 2550 elevation.
2767 fps is what the magneto sporter averaged.
Win 41 primer, new unfired Lapua case. The cases formed out about 3.5 thousandths with a little flattening of the primers, but I figure the Win’s are a little soft.

 

[Albany Mountain]

Here's a slung up 10 shot rapid fire string I fired at Cheyenne Wyoming with SMK 77's loaded to AR mag length.