Bolt gun, 26 inch 8 twist, SAAMI (not Rem Match) chamber Criterion. Currently shooting 73 Bergers but found 3 boxes of 80 gr. A-Max in my cabinet left over from shooting 22-250. Bullet intrusion into the case seated at the lands is .420" so not a lot of room for Varget. Maybe CFE223? I can jamb it up to .050 (hard jam) to make more room. Any suggestions are appreciated.
223 and 80gr A-Max load help wanted.
- Thread starter Texas10
- Start date
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
You might consider a very small grained powder that is faster than you might normally choose for that bullet weight. The advantages are that you might still be able to obtain reasonable velocity and precision without going way over MAX pressure, or heavily compressing loads due to the lack of boiler room, a [relatively short] 26" barrel, and a heavy bullet with a very long bearing surface.
For those very reasons, I used H322 in a load for a 26"-barreled .223 Rem bolt rifle that had a very short freebore with Berger's 80.5 Fullbore bullet. It didn't take nearly as much of such a fine grained and fast powder to get the 80.5s moving as it would with a slower and more bulky powder like Varget. I started at 21.5 gr and worked up VERY carefully, ending up at 22.5 gr of H322 final, which gave me something in the neighborhood of ~2850 fps. That A-Max has a pretty long bearing surface; it has approximately .a 017" longer BTO dimension than the 80.5 Berger, so if you decide to go this route with a fast, fined grained powder, be sure to start plenty low and work up safely. If you have access to a reloading program like QuickLoad, it can be very useful in circumstances such as this.
For those very reasons, I used H322 in a load for a 26"-barreled .223 Rem bolt rifle that had a very short freebore with Berger's 80.5 Fullbore bullet. It didn't take nearly as much of such a fine grained and fast powder to get the 80.5s moving as it would with a slower and more bulky powder like Varget. I started at 21.5 gr and worked up VERY carefully, ending up at 22.5 gr of H322 final, which gave me something in the neighborhood of ~2850 fps. That A-Max has a pretty long bearing surface; it has approximately .a 017" longer BTO dimension than the 80.5 Berger, so if you decide to go this route with a fast, fined grained powder, be sure to start plenty low and work up safely. If you have access to a reloading program like QuickLoad, it can be very useful in circumstances such as this.
I only shoot at a public range out to 300 yds for now, so this is more about me being curious if my 8 twist and an unfavorable freebore will still work to stabilize this very looooong bullet. As Ned pointed out, it's got a lot of bearing surface, and it's limiting my "boiler room" so powder selection will be key and it probably won't be about ultimate precision so much as getting acceptably stable flight. Barrel is mid life now so I'll plan the next barrel to shoot the heavies with a Rem Match chamber.
Thanks, Ned. I've got CFE223, H335, Tac, N133 in the way of ball powders to work with. I've already charged a case with a max load of CFE223 just to see how full it was and I found I had plenty of room to seat this bullet to touch or even off slightly. So it's in the running.
As I mentioned, I can jam the bullet up to .050 to gain more boiler room, but that is something I've not tried so far. I typically will start .010 into the lands and work out in load development.
What are your thoughts on these powders and seating depth. Jam or off?
Thanks for any help and my thanks to everyone else who took the time to share thoughts and experiences.
There is no problem stabilizing the 80 grs with 1 in 8".If you have half life barrel I would still throat and find a suitable lenght.We had both 1 -9" e 1-8" the former would hit all the six target of the hunter class target while aiming in the same spot,yet the holes were perfectly round.The bullets fired in 1-8" were very stable up to 300 metres that was the maximum distance I had available.
Filippo
What powder and what kind of velocity were you seeing?
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
As long as the powder has relatively small grains and a slightly faster burn rate than something like Varget, it might work just fine. As far as seating depth, I don't ever jam bullets unless they just won't shoot anywhere off the lands. Seating them farther out (jammed) might give you more effective case volume, but it could also create a pressure spike that might be undesirable with a heavy bullet, a fast powder, and less case volume than is optimal. There's just no way to know really, which approach would work best. I'd probably start them at about .012" off and see how it worked. But there's no way to know if that would be any better than starting them at .010" in and working out. It may be necessary to try both.
For a maximum 300 yard range 300 bullets 1 pound of powder will be close to shooting them up. I haven't ran any 80 Amax bullets with CFE 223, 70's are the heaviest. I'd probably give that powder a go. I have also shot the CFE in my PRS .308 with 175 gr. bullets that shoot very good. The last 600 f class I shot I used 80 eldm with H4895 in my 26". The load a little warm plus a slight jam. I shot all 3 relays in the low190's but the load needs tweaking.
23.1gr H4895 behind a 80 ELD gives me 2890fps out of a 30" barrel. .020 Jump in a Wylde chamber. This has the lowest ES I've been able to wring out of a 223 and shoots about .6 MOA at 300.
I am shooting 75 VLD’s in a Tikka T3x with a zero freebore with 23.0 8208.
Shot these yesterday starting with 22.5 gr of CFE223 and working up to 25 grs. Got some pretty good groups at 200m with 24.5 and 25 grs even as a cold front brought in gusty winds and colder air. All were jammed .012. Loading manuals said these top loads were on the hot side, but I got no ejector swipes, or cratering. We'll see how the primer pockets hold up.
Good fun and learned a lot, also had my wind flags up in anticipation of the front but didn't adjust my POA for the wind. Just waited for the flags to drop momentarily. Didn't always work but overall, results were encouraging.
My thanks for all the encouragement and help. You guys are the best!
Good fun and learned a lot, also had my wind flags up in anticipation of the front but didn't adjust my POA for the wind. Just waited for the flags to drop momentarily. Didn't always work but overall, results were encouraging.
My thanks for all the encouragement and help. You guys are the best!
fatelvis
Silver $$ Contributor
According to Quickload, out of a 26" barrel and using Horn 80 A-Max bullets, CFE223 will yield the highest velocities of any available powders. Loading to 2.504" OAL, (allowing .012" jam), and loading 24.7 grns. CFE223 powder, you should get 99.4% case fill, 54,677 psi pressure at 70* temp, and 2831 fps. For reference, at 90* temp, this load will be over recommended pressure (55,000 psi) and will yield 56,590 psi and 2861 fps.
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