223 AI Fire Forming Help

[Longtrain]

I have a 223 AI, I formed some brass loading a 69 SMK with AA2460. It worked fairly well, but now I need a good supply for competition.

I have 200 pieces of new Lapua brass and am interested in the COW method of fire forming. I have Bullseye powder, COW and tissue or patch material.

What is the process in FF'ing this new brass, how much Bullseye? I lost some brass using the bullet method, a number only fired on the second try and once reloaded and fired they had the appearance of potential case separation, with a bright ring up a third from the base. I want to minimize that issue in future fire formings.

I load for a 6mm Dasher also using the false shoulder method with great success, can that be used for a 223 AI?

BTW, Norma 203B and Berger 80.5 made a very accurate 300 Yard F Class load.

Thanks for any help, it's appreciated.

 

[TAJ45]

This is N O T, I repeat NOT a recommendation.......but a Bud has been using 14 gr in an XC case w/COW & tissue. No idea how much to redux for the 223AI.
Just a frame of reference.

 

[germanlongbow]

Why waste the bullets. I fireformed all my 223AI by loading the bullet 15 ths into the lands. Its that simple. My fireforming load is also my accuracy load. Never lost a piece of brass yet. On my forth reload and still no issues. Reloader 15. Fed 210M. SMK 77 gr. Winchester brass. Shoots in the sub 0.2's. Scott

 

[tooter]

8 gr. of Bullseye and as much COW that you can pack into the case ---- what I'm using to form Lapua and LC 223AI virgin brass. Great wintertime doldrums activity.

 

[centershot]

OK. What is COW?

 

[dfrosch]

cream of wheat

 

[P72]

Never COW fire formed a .223 AI but have COW fire formed lots of 6mm AI. My process was to fill the entire case having no primer with the fire forming powder, then weigh the powder, then come up with a 10% weight number. The rest is sort of speculative - Bulls-eye is one of the very fastest pistol powder and generates huge amounts of energy per weight. Knowing this I would further reduce the charge. If some 8 grains represented 10% I would further reduce that. I used 12 grains of HP38 in the much larger 6mm AI chamber and that was about 7% charge.

Be careful, you are going into an undocumented area.

A very worthy suggestion would be to use an working level .223 charge with a real bullet. Possibly you might be able to shoot rodents using your fire form load. Many improved rifles are somewhat short chambered requiring a "crush fit" thus no excessive head space and bullet contact.

Should you use the COW method be sure to clean out the chamber of your rifle between shots. I use a pistol cleaning rod having a .30 caliber brush (smaller for the approx. .37 diameter .223 case), then wrap a strip of paper towel around the brush that is slightly moistened with 91% rubbing alcohol then twisted to clean out the chamber. Failure to do this will result in small dents in the fire formed case from COW particles not blown out of the barrel. Regular plain rice can be used but if not cleaned out a bigger dent will occur.

I have used COW to make .280's from .270 Win with false shoulder. After fire forming a bunch the inside of your barrel will look like a sewer pipe, probably from sugars and starch stuff but that can be easily brushed out - I use 5W-30 synthetic motor oil and a nylon brush.

 

[Longtrain]

Thanks for the input. I'll measure the case volume and see how that matches to the proposed 8 grain suggestion. I will most likely reduce that and then work up to something gives a decent starting shoulder and is safe. I have see that 8 grain number elsewhere, FWIW.
I have no problem shooting bullets to FF, just looking for something different to try.

 

[Quickoz]

Ive fireformed 7mm08AI and 6x47AI and havent lost any cases fron the bullet method. Just load up a stout 223 load and jam the bullet 20 thou and shoot steel or varmints with it. Easier and more fun.

 

[stacy]

Ive fireformed 7mm08AI and 6x47AI and havent lost any cases fron the bullet method. Just load up a stout 223 load and jam the bullet 20 thou and shoot steel or varmints with it. Easier and more fun.

THAT'S WHAT I DO ALOT MORE FUN!!!!!

 

[Longtrain]

Well I loaded up 8 FFing loads for my 223 Ackley, I started at 2 grains of Bullseye and increased each load by 1 grain, maxing out at 9 grains of Bullseye. I used a small piece of TP as an over the powder wad, then filled each case with corn meal (grits), tamped the grits down about half the length of the neck and used a quarter of a 223 patch to seal the load.

Fired them down range, as if they were ball ammo loads, in advancing order, the lower charges just made a round bell of the neck and as the charge got higher the shoulder was better formed in the AI style. Not perfect but after a bullet full load they should be good to go.

The charge of 8 grains looked good, 9 grain showed no apparent improvement, lesser amounts showed a decreased degree of forming, as one would expect. So, I'll be using 8 to form my cases. I did run a patch into the chamber and barrel every 2 rounds, mainly as a let's see what's in there. Future cleaning will need to be determined with an increase of FFing loads being done. The loads with heavier amounts of powder were very loud, comparable to full power loads, not something to be done in your basement. Ear and eye protection are required of course.

I suppose if you try this method, work up loads for your rifle and situation as each individual rifle may perform differently. What worked for me safely may not work or be safe in your rifle.

 

[Longtrain]

Just an update, 200 Lapua cases FF'ed in about 1 1/2 hours at the range. Lots of little white patches in front of the bench. Cases look great and loaded they performed fine, very accurate.

 

[AckleymanII]

I fireformed 1000 of the 22/250 AI in an afternoon. I carried a 6 gallon bucket to the rifle range with me and filled it full of water.

I had a Rem 700 barrel that was chambered to use as a fire form barrel, Hart 12T MHV was the barrel I was going to use to shoot p. dogs with. I would fire about 100 rounds as fast as I could lock and load, then just dip the barrel in the 6 gallon bucket of water to cool it, then I would stand the gun on it's end in the bucket of water till the barrel cooled, Let the water drain out of the barrel, then immediately go back to fire forming. This method did not take long as you can imagine.

I cleaned the barrel when I got home, and then the next day went back to the range to see just how that fire form barrel would shoot. 5/8" groups were the result, and I killed coyotes with it for three years. Just like throwing a switch, it started shooting 1 1/2" groups, so it is just a forming barrel now, but lots of great memories with that barrel.

 

[SShooterZ]

I worked up a stout load of AA2015 with 55gr Noslers and shot this 10-shot group at 100 yards with the load I settled on. Those are 1" boxes.

So far through almost 200 cases I think I've only lost one.
I settled on a little over a full grain over max listed in the .223 which is still probably low for an AI chamber but I love the accuracy. Haven't chronoed yet but will shortly.

 

[Shaggy357]

Glad it worked out for you. I would have run the brass into a .243 tapered expander and then sized the neck back down so the brass just fit my chamber with that false shoulder. Load a full house .223 load and shoot PDs, targets, or whatever. Fired brass comes out AI'd with no issues. Have hundreds of .30-06 AI and many 1000s of other wildcat brass formed this way. COW lasted one session with me and a home made muffler. What a boring waste of the time. Shooting targets with instant gratification is much more enjoyable than blowing globs of COW into a pile of sand. MHO.

Steve