.223 AI ff loads

[wolfman]

Got me a .223 AI general purpose rifle. Rem 700, 22" 1-8" Rock #3. I'm looking to mass produce fireforming ammo on a Dillon 550. 69 smks, Lapua cases, Wolf SRM primers. My question is about powder, I'm looking for which powder will have a generous node that will give me best performance and what will do best through either the Dillon measure, or Lee Autodrum. I have 8208, H4895, Varget, N140, AR Comp, Leverevolution. Thoughts?

 

[Ned Ludd]

Any of those powders, with the possible exception of Leverevolution, ought to be just about ideal for what you're planning to load. I'd give the nod to H4895 or 8208 first. Both are excellent powders for .224" bullets in the ~60-90 gr weight range, and have relatively small kernels.

 

[wolfman]

My plan is to run some velocity tests to determine nodes, as well as some metering tests to see how consistantly they throw. Will be an interesting experiment to see how efficiently I can produce good quality ammo with a minimum of effort.

 

[premo 2]

I shoot A 223 AI use 25 grains of Varget with an 80 grain burger and I can often put 10 shots at 100 yards into the same hole from a cement table with a fire formed case

 

[wolfman]

I know Varget will work well in terms of actual performance, but I don't have much experience with what works well in powder measures.

 

[204 AR]

8208 measures consistently enough for me to use on my rcbs progressive. I don't know about n140 or ar comp. 4895 and varget are great powders but aren't going to measure within 1/10 grain ime. 8208 also gives me great speeds and accuracy out of my 223 ai with 53 gr vmax.

 

[B23]

Win 748 flows like water and will work very well with those 69gr SMK's as well as a wide range of other bullet weights too. Depending on your OAL somewhere around 25gr Win748 and those 69 SMK's should work well for you.

I use a lot of Benchmark and it too flows like water through a powder meter but my use with it is 53gr Vmax bullets and lighter. Benchmark may be just a tick on the fast side for the 69's.

 

[Oso]

You have 3 types of powder (1) Temp Stable (large stick) (2) Temp Stable (small stick), (3) Temp Sensitive (ball powder).

It just depends on where you are shooting (weather fluctuations may become a factor if large swings). LeverEvolution will be the fastest speed and easiest to meter in press, but is temperature sensitive. CFE 223 is a close second.

Both 8208 XBR and AR Comp are temperature stable and they are smaller mini-stick powder so will meter good in Dillon. Varget or H4895 are large extruded stick powder so metering on Dillon will be okay....

I would start with AR Comp, which is faster than 8208. If it doesn't give you the result then try 8208. If you want to max velocity then LeverEvolution.

 

[shadrac]

i have a 223 ai and i shoot 69 tmk with benchmark powder at 3250 fps and it shoots .3 at 100 yds

 

[wolfman]

thanks guys. Looks like I have some good options to explore.

 

[scope eye]

I have always found that faster powders fireform better than there slower counterparts, if you are using standard pressures.

Dean

 

[Oso]

Wolfman.... mass producing fire forming ammo. Fire forming 223AI is straight and simple, and incredibly accurate. If your idea is to do bulk run (500-1000 cases) then I would suggest for the 1st fire forming to use an economy 55gr FMJ ($0.10/bullet) for the initial case forming. Save the more expensive 69SMK ($0.33/bullet) to build out a precision round with higher velocity (more case capacity of fire-formed brass).

I am running 69SMK in my 223AI using 8208XBR and CCI 450 at 3100fps (not trying to max velocity). I'm saving the LeverEvolution for 6.5 Grendel.

 

[urbanrifleman]

You have 3 types of powder (1) Temp Stable (large stick) (2) Temp Stable (small stick), (3) Temp Sensitive (ball powder).

It just depends on where you are shooting (weather fluctuations may become a factor if large swings). LeverEvolution will be the fastest speed and easiest to meter in press, but is temperature sensitive. CFE 223 is a close second.

Both 8208 XBR and AR Comp are temperature stable and they are smaller mini-stick powder so will meter good in Dillon. Varget or H4895 are large extruded stick powder so metering on Dillon will be okay....

I would start with AR Comp, which is faster than 8208. If it doesn't give you the result then try 8208. If you want to max velocity then LeverEvolution.

I don't find AR Comp is faster than 8208. My loads don't show that it is...

 

[Hoser]

With the price and availability of primers you might be money ahead to fire the same case a few times and send it off to have a hydraulic form die made. Hornady and Whidden come to mind.

I normally use cream of wheat and Bullseye for the first firing and then start load development.

 

[Oso]

I did the same (pre-shortage) to form 1000 cases. Do to the volume I decided to save barrel life and 80% fire-formed using the Cream of Wheat Method (cornmeal and 8gr-9gr of Bullseye). If I had to buy primers at current crazy prices then I would just go straight 100% fire forming (loaded rounds). I would also forgo doing more than 250 cases and keep shooting them until they die. Hopefully by that point the shortage is over and primers only cost $5.50/100 primers.

 

[scope eye]

Just so you know, you can and will cause erosion to the throat by just fireforming, probably even more
since there is no bullet to dampin they ignited load of powder that is burning directly into the throat like an acetylene torch. You can still enjoy shooting while fireforming so why not, infact I have had a couple of barrels that shot better fireforming than formed cases so, I just kept forming one was a 260AI and they other was a 25-06AI. I just used the formed brass for my 6-06AI and 243AI, and lastly a fired case with no bullet will not form as nice or uniformly as one fired with a bullet, it could and usually takes a couple of firings to form a case properly without a bullet. This is just my experience from forming tens of thousands of cases over the years, take it for what it is worth.

Dean

 

[boltfluter]

H335 would be my first choice. Flows like water through a powder measure.

Paul

 

[urbanrifleman]

I would never waste time pre fireforming 223A. Just shoot it. It shoots maybe even better fireforming. And its 223. No cheaper thing to practice with...

23.5ish of AR Comp/8208/H4895 ought to fire form quite nicely and shoot quite small.

 

[wolfman]

I would never waste time pre fireforming 223A. Just shoot it. It shoots maybe even better fireforming. And its 223. No cheaper thing to practice with...

23.5ish of AR Comp/8208/H4895 ought to fire form quite nicely and shoot quite small.

that is the hope. I've done lots of loading, but most of it has been ultra picky stuff for F/TR. I'm using this project to try and streamline some of the steps and produce good ammo, in a more efficient way, using a 550.

 

[wolfman]

Ran a powder drop test with 8208 last night. I was shocked at how well it metered. Looking forward to moving forward with this project.