223 Ackely Improved / What's next

[BillJ]

My rifle is sent to gunsmith ( Rem 700 SA) and barrel (Barlein 1:12 tw / Hvy Varmint) is shipped to gunsmith.
The gunsmith said he didn't have a reamer but I assume he can find / rent one. I asked about zero free bore and he said since I'm hand loading it didn't matter. I would like to shoot 40 or 50 gr Vmax bullets. Varmint hunting.
I have a good number of 40 gr Vmax rds already loaded.
I assume I need to fire form brass. Should I just use the already loaded 40 gr Vamx rds? or Use the cream of wheat method or another?
Is there somewhere I can read up on this? I saw a book advertised about Ackley Fred Zeglin / for $29? Maybe its worth the investment?
Thoughts ? Input? Thank you.

 

[miningshawn]

As the price of primers (not to mention the scarcity!) continues to rise, I have started to recommend Hydroforming dies to people. Whidden makes a really good Hydro die for the 223AI. You might try giving them a hard look.

There will still be fire-forming involved, but it will just be the final 5% to get those crisp, beautiful Ackley shoulders.

 

[Cemetery21]

I have fireformed with normal 223 loads - close to 2500 over the years. Excellent accuracy and I don't think the prairie dogs noticed the difference.

Edit: Good point above with the shortage of components. It typically takes two firings to get the fully formed shoulder, but you should get excellent accuracy in those two firings - not a waste if you have targets that need shot anyway.

 

[B23]

As was mentioned above you should easily be able to work up a normal 223 load that'll shoot extremely well and use that as your fireforming load then once you've cycled through all your brass and it's formed start over with a new 223AI load and you'll be off and running.

Since you already have a lot of bullets on hand I understand why you'd want to use those up first but if you were starting from scratch my 223AI loves the 53gr Vmax.

 

[BillJ]

I looked at the Widden and $229 for the set...
Yes, 53 gr is my goal. But at present, those don't seem to be in stock / available. I'm thinking I'll just shoot the rounds I have then aim for the 53's with reloads...

 

[swimster]

I agree with B23. Mine is a 12 twist also. It was very accurate during fireforming. The 53g Vmax are my favorite load now.

 

[AckleymanII]

Some life lessons are hard learned:

". I asked about zero free bore and he said since I'm hand loading it didn't matter."

Bill, a life lesson is headed your way!

 

[B23]

Some life lessons are hard learned:

". I asked about zero free bore and he said since I'm hand loading it didn't matter."

Bill, a life lesson is headed your way!

If it has a little freebore and you're measuring to the lands and seating to touch or wherever it shoots best for you what's the problem just as long as it's not so long you either can't reach the lands or you have very little bullet in the case.

If you're loading everything to a generic book OAL measurement then I can see freebore potentially causing accuracy issues.

 

[AlNyhus]

Some life lessons are hard learned:

". I asked about zero free bore and he said since I'm hand loading it didn't matter."

Bill, a life lesson is headed your way!

THIS!!!^^^^^^

 

[BillJ]

Ok, so how do I prevent this lesson?

 

[AckleymanII]

Bill, your thinking was 100% on target when you stated that you wanted zero to little freebore for the light bullets.

DO NOT SETTLE FOR LESS, and it may cost you some money. START at the START...do it right the first time.

 

[AlNyhus]

I would suggest a zero freebore reamer and .025 would be as much as I'd ever go for the bullets you're going to use.
Respectfully, if your 'smith can't tell you what the reamer free bore is, you should continue your search. And rented reamers are always questionable. The reamer should feature a removable pilot so the 'smith can select the perfect pilot for the bore size. This is an area where .0001's (tenths of a thou) are critical.

Not having control of these areas will compromise your project, believe me.

 

[Ackman]

Find a load for that gun just as if it were a standard .223. You're firing a standard case in a larger chamber and best load will be more powder than a regular .223. Also faster, just as accurate, and each case will come out completely formed. You can shoot a lot using "fireform" loads and never know that's what they are. With formed brass go up a little at a time until you find that perfect load. Your gunsith said freebore doesn't matter likely because his reamer has freebore for long bullets. Zero freebore for what you'll be shooting.

 

[marchboom]

FWIW, I have no problem hunting when fireforming my 22-250 AI. The groups are 5/16" with a fireforming load (not max).

 

[Bocephus]

My rifle is sent to gunsmith ( Rem 700 SA) and barrel (Barlein 1:12 tw / Hvy Varmint) is shipped to gunsmith.
The gunsmith said he didn't have a reamer but I assume he can find / rent one. I asked about zero free bore and he said since I'm hand loading it didn't matter. I would like to shoot 40 or 50 gr Vmax bullets. Varmint hunting.
I have a good number of 40 gr Vmax rds already loaded.
I assume I need to fire form brass. Should I just use the already loaded 40 gr Vamx rds? or Use the cream of wheat method or another?
Is there somewhere I can read up on this? I saw a book advertised about Ackley Fred Zeglin / for $29? Maybe its worth the investment?
Thoughts ? Input? Thank you.

Well pard, my best guess is he meant to say, "the freebore doesn't matter...to him!" But sooner or later it's gonna matter to you.
Mine was spec'd with about 0.060", but it is an 8tw, shooting 69 & 70gr. If things loosen up a bit, may even test a few 75s & 77s.
It does fair with the lighter stuff, but only fair.

Agree with the other fellows, load those puppies up and shoot them. Done right, you will be fireforming and smiling.

 

[TAJ45]

As has been stated, llittle to no freebore for YOUR purposes.
If by chance the current smith can't/won't accomodate you, the Paying Customer, advise him to cease and desist work or reamer search. Find a smith that will do what you want done w the various sized pilots on hand and have it shipped to him.
Another $35 will be very well spent, actually cheap, to have him ship to the Real smith.

 

[Evan]

My rifle is sent to gunsmith ( Rem 700 SA) and barrel (Barlein 1:12 tw / Hvy Varmint) is shipped to gunsmith.
The gunsmith said he didn't have a reamer but I assume he can find / rent one. I asked about zero free bore and he said since I'm hand loading it didn't matter. I would like to shoot 40 or 50 gr Vmax bullets. Varmint hunting.
I have a good number of 40 gr Vmax rds already loaded.
I assume I need to fire form brass. Should I just use the already loaded 40 gr Vamx rds? or Use the cream of wheat method or another?
Is there somewhere I can read up on this? I saw a book advertised about Ackley Fred Zeglin / for $29? Maybe its worth the investment?
Thoughts ? Input? Thank you.

This looks like what your smith needs:

223 Remington Ackley Improved (no throat) - 4D Reamer Rentals

22 Hornet Improved Reamer Rental fee $36 with $150 fully refundable deposit when reamer is returned in the same condition it was shipped out at.

4drentals.com

Don't let him use a reamer meant for the heavy bullets with a freebore >0.080" if you want to shoot short bullets. It's really not an area to compromise on as has been said. Now if he finds a reamer with 0.025" freebore or something in that neighborhood then sure; that'll work fine.

 

[boltfluter]

If he doesn't care about the free bore, find a smith that does. The rifle needs to be what you want, period.

Paul

 

[BillJ]

This looks like what your smith needs:

223 Remington Ackley Improved (no throat) - 4D Reamer Rentals

22 Hornet Improved Reamer Rental fee $36 with $150 fully refundable deposit when reamer is returned in the same condition it was shipped out at.

4drentals.com

Don't let him use a reamer meant for the heavy bullets with a freebore >0.080" if you want to shoot short bullets. It's really not an area to compromise on as has been said. Now if he finds a reamer with 0.025" freebore or something in that neighborhood then sure; that'll work fine.

That's great info thanks. I sent the "smith" an email requesting the free bore measurements. I am waiting to hear back from him. I would tend to think he would know about 4D rentals..

 

[TAJ45]

Just from what you, the OP, has posted, I would most likely be looking for a smith whose attention to important details of his customer are also important to him.
I was a member of a large club years back that had a "smith" who competed in the br and long range matches. While chatting w him abt bbl set up he told me sometimes he couldn't get closer than .003" and would go ahead and chamber.......!!??!! There are "smiths" and then there are SMITHS. I know you are anxious to get it done......but at what overall cost? Obviously the choice of every customer. You will pay and live w your choice for thousands of 223AI rds. Too many top flight guys on this board to say ya can't find one. Jmho