I am going to start developing a 77 SMK Load for my Noveske. I have Varget and Tac. I would like to work up several loads of each to narrow down to the most accurate load for my rifle. I will start with 4 different loads of each and then of coarse I can tweek from there. I'm looking for good starting points of charge level for each powder. Suggestions?
.223 77SMK Where to Start?
- Thread starter gandygroove
- Start date
24 grains of either. you have to do oyur own workup but this is a good place to start.Tac is faster than varget so a little goes farther. as you work up, the denser the load of TAC you may end up switching to to magnum type small primers. some lots of military match i have shot were compressed 77gr smk cannelure on 25gr of TAC on winchester brass the supplier was Black Hills. Also i think the primers were crimped in too.we were running around 2875+fps on that lot, it was hot but shot great!. please take the time for a proper load work up for your firearm. pm me if you have other questions. the forum is a great place for answers.i hope this helps.by the way welcome to the forum!!
cheers,
doc
cheers,
doc
big fan of your postsI've been playing with the 77 SMK and Varget as of late. Since I'm using an AR I haven't been loading over 24.0gr, and 23.6 seems to be the keeper, delivering 1/2 MOA at 2485 with an ES of 7 and SD of 2.
Not to hijack the thread now, but this leaves me with a question, I don't know much about primers and am only now beginning to toy with different ones, so I have to ask what's the benefit of using a magnum primer with compressed loads? A standard primer wouldn't get the job done as well I presume.
Not to hijack the thread now, but this leaves me with a question, I don't know much about primers and am only now beginning to toy with different ones, so I have to ask what's the benefit of using a magnum primer with compressed loads? A standard primer wouldn't get the job done as well I presume.
Holy,
TAC is a ball type powder and the load will be a little "denser" than varget which of course is a stick powder. the theory is that with dense load the extra spark will help with a more efficient burn. it sounds like you are already on the money, and i would not tinker with magnum primers at this point. if you sart getting into case filling dense or compressed loads then you may have to go that way. i hope this helps.
cheers,
Doc
TAC is a ball type powder and the load will be a little "denser" than varget which of course is a stick powder. the theory is that with dense load the extra spark will help with a more efficient burn. it sounds like you are already on the money, and i would not tinker with magnum primers at this point. if you sart getting into case filling dense or compressed loads then you may have to go that way. i hope this helps.
cheers,
Doc
tac is very effecient in .223, its hard to beat as far as velocity goes. (the 77gr smk wont reliably fragment below 2200 fps so depending on your use?) As far as primers go, slam fires are a hazard with an ar gas gun, for that reasons many people recommend cci because of thier hardness and resistance to accidental dicharges. I dont remember which ones were soft, but u can probably find it on ar 15 site.
i was warned by my mentor to avoid the remy primers at all costs for all gas service rifles. Federal regulars needed a litle extra caution as well, but if you uniform primer pocket and pay attention to look out for the occasional "proud" primer, you should be fine. i went with CCI, WW, wolf, and Federal regs.
cheers,
doc
cheers,
doc
The load I've worked up thus far is using cci 400s. I tried some 205Ms a while back when I was working 69 SMKs and I suspected the ccis were giving me issues (and now with two misfires and some funny numbers I suspect troubles again). I, personally, had no trouble with the 205Ms and slam fires, but from what I've read all other primers should be safe.
Most of the local HM guys I know who shoot 77s in a .223 gas gun use Varget over anything else. I have used Varget, H4895 and mostly RE15. I have shot thousands of rounds with Remington 7 1/2s with no problems at all. 23.5 to 24.0 grains seem to be the thing with Varget, a little less with H4895. There seems to be many different .223 chambers around that it is hard to say what to use.
I stopped using Winchester primers years ago because of problems with piercing, had to replace a bolt and firing pin. I use CCI BR or Wolf SRM primers. Haven't had a single issue with either. If necessary, I wouldn't hesitate to use Remington BR primers.
Just for some FYI, I said I was beginning to tinker with primers in my AR load, and I had loaded 23.6, 23.8, and 24.0gr of varget on top of both Rem 7 1/2s and CCI BR-4s. I took those loads out and shot them today and can unequivocally say that the 7 1/2s fared better. Typically I see some marginal flattening and cratering, and that was evident in the BR-4s, though somewhat less than the 400s. However looking at the 7 1/2s, aside from the dent if the firing pin strike, I saw zero primer deformation. They looked precisely as pristine coming out of the rifle as they did going in.
other than pressure signs, and indication that my firing pin might not be centered Im wondering why primer deformation matters?
As far as checking primers for AR use Id chamber and extract the same round a few times without firing to see if my free floating firing pin is leaving marks on the primer that might indicate a pending slamfire.
As far as checking primers for AR use Id chamber and extract the same round a few times without firing to see if my free floating firing pin is leaving marks on the primer that might indicate a pending slamfire.
I look at the primers pretty much solely for pressure signs. Also if I know what kind of primer deformation to expect with a particular loads, I also check to get an idea if the primer pockets are getting loose.
As far as pin dents, my AR leaves the slightest speck of a dent, so perhaps that's why the 205Ms worked perfectly safely for me.
As far as pin dents, my AR leaves the slightest speck of a dent, so perhaps that's why the 205Ms worked perfectly safely for me.
What type of shooting do you plan on doing? Are you considering long range shooting, 600 yards or more? or is it for just plinking short ranges below 300? If it's just for plinking don't worry so much about load development and just find a safe load with O.A.L. that are correct for use in a magazine. If you aren't shooting 500 yards plus, then developing a sweetheart load is pointless because you won't see it's full potential. Good quality components correctly assembled are going to be the only thing you need to worry about when putting together a good plinking round. That having been said, if you want to shoot long range for competition, then you need to choose components based on your own testing with your gun. Start with a standard load from a reliable loading manual and play with powder charge, seating depth, primers and dies. BUT ONLY CHANGE ONE COMPONENT AT A TIME! Document how the changes effect your group size and velocities. This type of attention to reloading is normally only applied by high power/ national match shooters due to the need for repeatability in their ammo.
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.