222Rem brass from 223
- Thread starter strut64
- Start date
I have found when making 20 VT from 223 to not lube the neck/shoulder junction when forming. Only the body of the case. You may try annealing the shoulder area also to soften it up. Just my experience - no expert but it works....
Lubed up some 223 brass once upon a time to see if it would become 222. Did about 20 pieces thru a 222 Fl sizer die. Only problem was the headstamp still says 223, but that lovely long neck screams 222!
Frank
Frank
I do this by keeping the lube off the neck and I back the full length sizing die way out so it just barely begins to move the shoulder. Then I raise the handle just enough to pull the neck out of the neck portion of the die, turn the die in an eighth to a quarter turn, run the case in, and repeat. So, only pushing the shoulder a little bit with each stroke. That's the only way I've able to do it. About halfway through the process I'll wipe of the shoulder to make sure no lube has migrated there. I found annealing really didn't help me and actually made have made it worse.
I have done it, not worth the aggravation buy some brass its not that difficult.
Have not made 222 out of 223 but made some 6xc out of 308. That was probably more difficult.
I found dillon case lube on an rcbs lube pad worked well to just put lube on the case body. Then you put a tiny bit around the case mouth. I also did the size part way, turn the case and size the rest. And annealing before did make the shoulders/necks more likely to collapse.
I have converted several hundred .223 to .222 rem. At first I had a few cases wrinkle. Like others have said it was caused by too much lube on the case shoulder. I changed to Imperial Sizing Wax and use it sparingly and no longer have a wrinkle problem. When using the Imperial Wax I gently wipe my first two fingers across the top of the wax and then rub them on the body of the case. I LIGHTLY wipe the shoulder of the case. Usually I can lubricate two or three cases with just one swipe of the fingers to the wax can. The Imperial Wax is super slick. I have had several stuck cases in the resizing die in the past before using Imperial Wax. Never had a stuck case since. The wax is not cheap but it lasts and lasts. The can I have now is over 6 years old and still has about 75% left. I have loaded over 2000 rounds, several calibers, during that time. You won't go wrong using Remington 7 1/2 primers.
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TheCZKid
Silver $$ Contributor
I just made 20 last night, just to see if I could do it, as I am picking up my 222 tomorrow! I have made over 2000 20 Vartarg from LC 5.56, so I have lots of experience in sizing, annealing, turning necks.
In looking through many posts online, YouTube videos, and forums, the method I did last night seems to work. Deprime and clean the brass. DO NOT ANNEAL THE BRASS BEFORE YOU FULL LENGTH FORM IT.
I used just the full-length sizing die with the decapper and expander ball removed. Wipe a thin coat of Imperial sizing wax on, very little on neck & shoulder. I size in smaller increments of 3 or 4 smaller sizing passes. In between the increments, I removed the brass, made sure there was almost no lube on the shoulder or neck, and a little on the case sides. I and look at the shoulder, making sure it's not creasing or creating dents, and slightly turn it too. On the third time I was getting to the total of of the full-length die. Videos tell you to screw the die into the press gradually, that would work fine too. Take it SLOW, 3 or 4 short progressions, and you will have success. There's also a RCBS and Redding forming die you can use.
Part of your success will depend on what brand of brass you are trying to size. I tested with LC, PMC and also Norma. Both LC and PMC tests worked well as they are softer, but the Norma was tougher, it weights more and mine seem to be harder brass alloy. I tried another A USA I think, it wrinkled at the shoulder really badly! So test first, see which brass works.
After full length sizing, you need to trim the necks to correct 1.690 minimum or 1.700 length maximum. Chamfer & deburr the neck. Then anneal the neck and slightly into the shoulder, to a dull red. Then you run your 222 sizing die expander ball through the necks, to get the Inside Diameter correct. Then you need to outside turn the necks, to your desired thickness, for the whole neck. Mine I'm doing .012" thickness. When you neck the 223 case the lower parts of the new necks will be too thick, so you need to turn them. Once you get them turned, you're done forming. You might want to use a bushing die, like 246 - 247 to give correct neck tension.
Load to fire-form them, and you have equivalent of factory brass. I'd prefer Lapua factory brass, but it's not available right now. I've got some Lapua but not enough. So I'm going to use my Norma to make more.
In looking through many posts online, YouTube videos, and forums, the method I did last night seems to work. Deprime and clean the brass. DO NOT ANNEAL THE BRASS BEFORE YOU FULL LENGTH FORM IT.
I used just the full-length sizing die with the decapper and expander ball removed. Wipe a thin coat of Imperial sizing wax on, very little on neck & shoulder. I size in smaller increments of 3 or 4 smaller sizing passes. In between the increments, I removed the brass, made sure there was almost no lube on the shoulder or neck, and a little on the case sides. I and look at the shoulder, making sure it's not creasing or creating dents, and slightly turn it too. On the third time I was getting to the total of of the full-length die. Videos tell you to screw the die into the press gradually, that would work fine too. Take it SLOW, 3 or 4 short progressions, and you will have success. There's also a RCBS and Redding forming die you can use.
Part of your success will depend on what brand of brass you are trying to size. I tested with LC, PMC and also Norma. Both LC and PMC tests worked well as they are softer, but the Norma was tougher, it weights more and mine seem to be harder brass alloy. I tried another A USA I think, it wrinkled at the shoulder really badly! So test first, see which brass works.
After full length sizing, you need to trim the necks to correct 1.690 minimum or 1.700 length maximum. Chamfer & deburr the neck. Then anneal the neck and slightly into the shoulder, to a dull red. Then you run your 222 sizing die expander ball through the necks, to get the Inside Diameter correct. Then you need to outside turn the necks, to your desired thickness, for the whole neck. Mine I'm doing .012" thickness. When you neck the 223 case the lower parts of the new necks will be too thick, so you need to turn them. Once you get them turned, you're done forming. You might want to use a bushing die, like 246 - 247 to give correct neck tension.
Load to fire-form them, and you have equivalent of factory brass. I'd prefer Lapua factory brass, but it's not available right now. I've got some Lapua but not enough. So I'm going to use my Norma to make more.
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dgeesaman
Gold $$ Contributor
I did a couple pieces using Lapua .223 brass. I used a full length die with expander ball and annealed afterward. I ended up with a donut of sorts where the shoulder material was pulled into the neck. I may have done it in two steps to work down to .222 length. The fact that I had to skim turn the necks might have caused the donut but I suspect the shoulder brass section was just thicker or thickened as it gathered into the narrower neck area.
I haven’t bothered to do more with it. I use those pieces as barrel warmers and the shots touch or overlap at 100 most of the time.
I haven’t bothered to do more with it. I use those pieces as barrel warmers and the shots touch or overlap at 100 most of the time.
JSH
Gold $$ Contributor
All your brass work this past winter you must have arms like Popeye now ;-), lol.
I know after my 221 basic project this past winter along with making 222, it was a chore. I do t want to think about it and make my “itis” flare up again. Neck turned all of it! Rigged up an extra Forster trimmer/turner as a lathe set up with an electric screw driver. I am going to either have to sharpen my tool bit or order a new one.
When I described my method in an earlier post I forgot one important thing. I do this incremental sizing with the neck expander/decapping pin removed. So I'm not dragging that expander back through the neck and then squeezing the neck back down on every pass. I only put the expander/decapper back in for final sizing after I have pushed the shoulder back on all the cases.
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butchlambert
Site $$ Sponsor
The easier way to do it.
centershot
Silver $$ Contributor
I used a file and trim .222 die. Lost very few. L C brass as well as comercial.
Strut. I use a Redding #83101 form & trim-series A die to form my 221/222rem brass from LC, even factory nickel plated and it works just fine, with one pass, slow and easy, but will just a tad of Imperial wax on the body.
For the 222 Rem brass, I just turn the die up, from touching the shell holder, so it sizes for the cartridge and down to touch for the 221 FB case. Then trim the excess neck with the small harbor trim saw. But if you don't want to size, then order, when brass shows, as it has now with MidwayUSA and Grafs.
For the 222 Rem brass, I just turn the die up, from touching the shell holder, so it sizes for the cartridge and down to touch for the 221 FB case. Then trim the excess neck with the small harbor trim saw. But if you don't want to size, then order, when brass shows, as it has now with MidwayUSA and Grafs.
TheCZKid
Silver $$ Contributor
I want one!
Ah, I've heard of this but thought it was a myth or urban legend. The 222 Orbital, the three-stages-to-orbit cartridge developed to shoot down satellites.
Is that an old Skip Otto form die?
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