222 improved

[maddysdad]

i saw this in benchrest reports on accasion from earlyer times.is it faster then a 222 or the 222 magnum .sounds like a gun groundhog rifle if you were to build one

 

[centershot]

I have a .222x35*. Nice cartridge. Shoot informal score bench rest matches with it.

 

[fkimble@charter.net]

Possibly an Ackley Improved version, or simply a small shoulder set back or extended because someone thought it would do better.

Frank

 

[JSH]

For being fairly new to the 222, had to see what the magic was. Impressed from the get go.
Honestly, what is there to improve on?

 

[centershot]

For being fairly new to the 222, had to see what the magic was. Impressed from the get go.
Honestly, what is there to improve on?

Shooters are always looking beyond!

 

[wildcatter]

Sounds like a recipie to destroy a perfect cartridge. Kinda like trying to improve a ppc?

When we have the 222 mag, 223. or 221 fireball, I think Mike Walker covered all the bases, bigger and smaller with as good as it is ever going to get.

But kids must play!

 

[B23]

Sounds like a recipie to destroy a perfect cartridge. Kinda like trying to improve a ppc?

When we have the 222 mag, 223. or 221 fireball, I think Mike Walker covered all the bases, bigger and smaller with as good as it is ever going to get.

But kids must play!

Well you better not talk like that around any of VarTarg followers because they're of the belief changing a 20-221 from a 23° to 30° shoulder angle and pushing the shoulder back ever so slightly transforms the 20VT into a mythical creature capable of amazing feats of not only accuracy but velocity too.

 

[AccelR8]

When I saw the title I thought this was another April 1st posting.

As stated above, it's the perfect cartridge. What could be improved?

 

[nakneker]

I love the 222, it’s perfect as it is but I can understand the idea of playing around with it. I would actually be interested to know how much more efficient it would be with a 40 degree shoulder. I think it would be interesting.

 

[B23]

I love the 222, it’s perfect as it is but I can understand the idea of playing around with it. I would actually be interested to know how much more efficient it would be with a 40 degree shoulder. I think it would be interesting.

I think the only way you'd really be able to measure that is if they were both hooked up to something like a strain gauge so you'd be comparing the two at equal pressure.

Whenever you square the shoulder off and take the taper out of a case it does a good job of hiding pressure and then you add in the fact some brass, like Lapua and a couple others, can take a lot of abuse before it starts loosening primer pockets so these AI'd or "improved" cases get run at, much, higher pressures than their parent case that has more case taper and a shallower shoulder angle so it makes the "improved" versions appear as though they're so much more efficient because they're gaining 3-400fps with only a relatively minimal increase in powder.

 

[357Mag]

+1 on what Wildcatter said ! +1 on what AccelR8, too.


With regards,
357Mag

 

[JSH]

I think the only way you'd really be able to measure that is if they were both hooked up to something like a strain gauge so you'd be comparing the two at equal pressure.

Whenever you square the shoulder off and take the taper out of a case it does a good job of hiding pressure and then you add in the fact some brass, like Lapua and a couple others, can take a lot of abuse before it starts loosening primer pockets so these AI'd or "improved" cases get run at, much, higher pressures than their parent case that has more case taper and a shallower shoulder angle so it makes the "improved" versions appear as though they're so much more efficient because they're gaining 3-400fps with only a relatively minimal increase in powder.

There ya go again stirring the crowd, ;-), lol.

After you and I visited on the subject, the only reason I went with a 20VT was for the resale side of it if I didn’t like it.
I considered the turbo/20-222 as well.

Subject at hand on 222, I asked around a fair bit on loads. I never saw enough leaning towards one particular powder to push me to use “one” powder. Bullets we’re about the same, some pointing at a match bullet, but we expect a bit more accuracy with them anyway.

I had a lot of of odds and ends of bullets, same with powders. I honestly have to say I never found what I would say was a terrible combo. Worst I recall was about 2”@100 and that was with some pull down bullets.
What I ended up with for a prairie dog load, 36 grain barns and AA 2200, shoots great with higher than normal speed for a 222. Bullet is about 50 grain length and speed is a small bit better than a 40 BK.

 

[Knorthcutt222]

I bought a old benchrest rifle from an estate. Barrel was marked .222 .243. I took this as a 222 tight neck. I was partially right. After turning some necks I loaded some up. They where tight chambering but not crazy tight. After firing it turns out I bought a 222 Ackley.

 

[wildcatter]

I think the only way you'd really be able to measure that is if they were both hooked up to something like a strain gauge so you'd be comparing the two at equal pressure.

Whenever you square the shoulder off and take the taper out of a case it does a good job of hiding pressure and then you add in the fact some brass, like Lapua and a couple others, can take a lot of abuse before it starts loosening primer pockets so these AI'd or "improved" cases get run at, much, higher pressures than their parent case that has more case taper and a shallower shoulder angle so it makes the "improved" versions appear as though they're so much more efficient because they're gaining 3-400fps with only a relatively minimal increase in powder.

I recently built a 222 with a 21.5" barrel. I have only began to work up loads, testing powders, and working with one bullet, a 52 grain flat base in a 1-14 twist Shilen SM barrel.

But I have been around a while and understand the ability of any 222 case to take pressure. Trust me the load manuals are anemic at around 48000 cup as max.

But even in the Superior cases from Lapua, I have ran this little duesh to a little over 3250 fps, and have to ask if you realy think you can get anywhere around 3650 fps improving this case with any length barrel?

In reality I don't think you could get 3400 fps and load the case again, you'd be hard pressed to get a primer to stay in the pocket, let alone seal!

Sorry but 300- 400 fps more over what is capable in the original case is delusional! In all reality I think you'd have trouble getting another 100 fps over what I have gotten with any barrel length, and retain brass for more than couple loadings!

That's just my honest opinion, and from my experience, there are a lot of cartridges that the only benefit improving the case is running it at high pressure without the need to trim as often.

But far to many makes claims that those that have not been there belive! Trust me, I've been there, and increasing the ability of this factory spec case by 100 fps is a stretch, I would be surprised to see 3400 fps with a 52 grain bullet in that same length barrel.

 

[K22]

How do to you improve the perfect cartridge? More importantly why would you want to attempt it?

Just my feelings on the subject. However, I don't care to get into a "paper ballistics" debate on this subject.

Load development is straight forward, 1/2 moa is fairly easy to obtain, even in sporter weight rifles. Learn how to shoot it and I doubt you will find any reason to be dissatisfied with the results.

 

[B23]

I bought a old benchrest rifle from an estate. Barrel was marked .222 .243. I took this as a 222 tight neck. I was partially right. After turning some necks I loaded some up. They where tight chambering but not crazy tight. After firing it turns out I bought a 222 Ackley.

Looking at those pics of your brass it appears you have early stages of case head separation. It may be something you want to look in to.

 

[Knorthcutt222]

Looking at those pics of your brass it appears you have early stages of case head separation. It may be something you want to look in to.

I noticed it as well but have fired on the case several more times and not seen any sign of it getting worse. But did get a new batch of Lapua brass and got them all fire formed. Non have shown any signs like those pictured

 

[B23]

That first pic with just the two pieces of brass, the formed one, I'm not sure I'd reload that one again. The other pic the dreaded "line" appears to be much more faint and not nearly as pronounced as the first pic.

 

[Ray123]

I can't see improving the 222 case...just go to the 223, as a logical step. But if ya want to improve away. The standard 222 is loaded to low pressure...bump up the pressure. I used the 222 for many years, and had a couple, down to one.
I run 40 gr Nosler BT at 3750 fps, 50 gr SX, 50 gr tnt at 3400 fps, most of the many thousands of rds were varmint hunting many yrs ago. 24" 14 twist on all factory rifles. Shot match bullets too but never chronographed them, I was varmint hunting, with the 222.
Walt Berger ran his 222 Rem match rifle with Berger 52 gr FB match at 3225 fps with H335 to win matches back in the day. I accidentally ran 55 gr to 3500 fps but blew a primer, after 4 rds, they were the wrong gr loaded, supposed to be 50 gr.
Haven't explored the 222 for along time...with new powders, who knows? Yet another experiment to add...thinking, maybe 3350 fps possible with 52 gr bullets in 222.

 

[centershot]

I am going to try BLC-2 this week just to bring it back to where it was before improving it.