.222 brass from my .223 hoard

[chop house]

if you were to make up a batch of .222 brass and had buckets of all the common 'mil' .223 stuff laying around (including lc, fc, pmc, imi, rp, hornady frontier, wma and others i fail to recall) which would you work with.

crimped primers are not an issue, but crimped necks could be. for instance, even with necessary case shortening all the crimp on the rp neck is not removed making 0.050" of the neck look like it was mishandled in a lee collet die.

thanks.

 

[GLShooter]

I'd sort by headstamp and ignore the crimp if that was my biggest batch. I don't worry much about esthetics. The prairie dogs never sse the case neck.

Greg

 

[chop house]

I'd sort by headstamp and ignore the crimp if that was my biggest batch. I don't worry much about esthetics. The prairie dogs never sse the case neck.

Greg

thanks, and let me clarify. i have the luxury to chose almost any headstamp since i have, well, buckets of the stuff gathered over the years. thus, i was looking for opinions on the best quality in it's native form, the most uniform, the tightest pockets, the most durable, or whatever other criteria one has knowledge of.

it wasn't the esthetics of the residual crimp, but the possible inconsistent neck tension i was experiencing that i alluded to.

 

[GLShooter]

Given that I'd do LC stuff.

Greg

 

[pertnear]

As for inconsistent neck tension, you need to anneal after forming. I thought that was a given (?)

 

[chop house]

yes, i anneal every time. still does not iron out the lateral ridges from the residual crimp on the rp brass.

 

[snert]

LC

 

[garandman]

Ell Cee brass.

 

[chop house]

i'm getting some of the lake city brass ready for the tumbler right now. thanks.

 

[5spd]

Ive got thousands of mixed brass brands. Finally 2 yrs ago I broke down and separated it all by headstamp.
Now all I use is lc brass.
Never annealed in my life, p dogs don't need bench rest ammo.
It is all trimmed, pocket crimps removed, cleaned.

 

[JSH]

222 from 223. I have to say let the brass tell you which to use. I just went down the same road a couple of years ago. Some years of LC worked, some didn’t. Then tried some WCC and IMI.
My major glitch with all of it was a bad wrinkle in the shoulder.
I tried various techniques with little change. Seems like on once fired, if it had any kind of nick or flaw where brass was moving it would rear its ugly head.

 

[centershot]

I don't know your process, but when I used to do that, I used a file trim die. Lost very few cases.

 

[jelenko]

Even with a file trim die, don't you still have to set the shoulder way back? I thought setting the shoulder way back is where the trouble lies.

 

[AckleymanII]

Wrinkles in the shoulder are ironed out when they are fire formed, eh?

Wrinkles from Trapped air?

I have never seen this when using Paul Bike's Form dies.

 

[SBS]

Never had much life from cases with the bullet crimps that you describe. The necks would crack where the crimps were after a few firings. So I would avoid those type cases. Some Federal brass is quite heavy, so might weigh the different brands. LC would be my 1st choice also; still might want to sort by year headstamp, try a few and see if your selected year works and wears okay.

 

[DiffEQ]

I converted hundreds of 308 LC brass (and scores each of other brands) to 7mm-08. I found it to be thicker & tougher than Hornady, RP, Win or Nosler.
Also converted 150 pieces of Hdy 375 Ruger to 7mm LRM (25% loss in the process).
Doing a shoulder setback - based on cases that I have done so - creases in the shoulder become splits on the 1st or 2nd firing. Ripples at the shoulder/body junction usually prevent clambering.
Every brand behaves differently. I think you will find Hornady to be the softest and easiest.
Lately I'm trying to convert Lapua 300 PRC into 7mmLRM and Lap is tough, tough brass.
Recommend you try the following: get 10 of each brand, anneal them, try to do your magic.
When you do, this helped me most:
- Use lots of lube. I have tried wax, silicone, wd40, penetrating oil, mineral oil, etc. All fail. The best were a generous application of either 1 part lanolin / 9 parts of 99% IPA or 1 part refined coconut oil / 1 part 99% IPA
- move the ram excruciatingly slowly

 

[whatsupdoc]

I have only done very few, so keep that in mind.
I annealed the cases before putting them through the sizing die and I had no wrinkles or
dents.

I decided after trimming a few it was much better to just buy 222 brass as they were
selling it for cheap and my time is better spent on other things.

 

[JSH]

The wrinkle I deal with are like a tight fold.
You name it and I have tried it to solve the issue.
Heard nothing but good about the pbikes form dies from those that have them.

 

[AckleymanII]

I made a butt load of 6 XC cases from Lake city brass, PMC brass, once fired Chinese military machine gun brass, never a wrinkled case. I never annealed a case using Paul Bike's form dies. Accuracy was simply astounding from all that "trashy" Brass. The Chinese military brass was loaded hot, and only survived one firing due to primer pocket loss. The rest of the brass is still going strong...good for hunting where the nephews loose every case. Of course, all necks are turned.

When trying to re purpose Lake City brass, remember those primer pockets are punched. Many of them have huge tits that partially cover the inside of the flash hole. For this reason, I put the slightest radius on the inside of every flash hole.

If you like Winter projects forming brass, then I encourage you to invest in the Paul Bike's form die sets, and it is a purchase you will never regret.

 

[chop house]

ok, processed a test lot of 50 lc various years. using hornady unique lube sparingly. annealed the brass in 223 form. took expander out of fl die. did not attempt moving shoulder more than about 0.030 per stroke/die setting. was still losing about 1 in 5 to neck wrinkles, even with wiping lube off 'new' shoulder each time. changed gears:

went to redding body die which allowed more 'free' movement on the neck for brass to flow out. that mostly solved the issue. moved shoulder to within 0.010 of final chamber datum using body die. re-annealed, relubed and did final size to chamber datum with high mounted expander ball.

now the good news. through all this the t.i.r on the neck od is less than 0.002 and typically closer to 0.001. the neck thickness is very uniform hovering between 0.012 and 0.0125. the flash holes required NO inside deburring, and are some of the cleanest i have seen on any headstamp brass. the flash hole uniform tool took a very very light uniform cut. i have not weighed the cases yet.

My major glitch with all of it was a bad wrinkle in the shoulder.
I tried various techniques with little change.

see how i solved this written above. thanks

p dogs don't need bench rest ammo.

sadly, no dogs in no alabama. although i have made the pilgrimage to sd on several occasions and greatly enjoy the activity.

So I would avoid those type cases.

i learned...

try a few and see

test lot of 50 cases ready to load

I have never seen this when using Paul Bike's Form dies.

not familiar. will research.

Even with a file trim die, don't you still have to set the shoulder way back? I thought setting the shoulder way back is where the trouble lies.

absolutely. i never thought to trim, then form. i might do it to see what happens.

I converted hundreds of 308 LC brass (and scores each of other brands) to 7mm-08. I found it to be thicker & tougher than Hornady, RP, Win or Nosler

i have done that also. but not moving the shoulder (sorry, guffey) like this conversion. agree with tougher. i annealed twice during this exercise.

I think you will find Hornady to be the softest and easiest.

likely, but i was willing to do some work up front to get more durable brass. especially since now i can anneal every loading.

move the ram excruciatingly slowly

yup, can't slam it. but watch for too much lube.