Hello all.im new to this site im writing today for all shooters. To email lapua,remington,savage,winchester.to either standerize the 20var/targ or make better brass. As u all know remington brass leaves alot to be disired.if we can get somebody to make it standerd like the 204 we can get better brass.let me know what u think.there is strength in numbers,the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
221 fireball needs better brass
- Thread starter truckdriver
- Start date
Well I've got a fulltime job wife&2 kids.I don't mind alittle bit of time at the loading bench that's what got me interested. In the v/t but I enjoy shooting alot more than spending all my time forming brass.remy needs some compition. And maybe there qc will get better.I got 3 split necks out of my last new bag.and the flash holes were every shape and size.and the primer pockets loosen up after 2 loads.no competition. That's what the problem is.
Rick in Oregon
Gold $$ Contributor
I completely agree and wish Lapua would make 221FB brass too. However with a bit of work, the R-P cases can be made to shoot well if one is willing to put the time into them. This is a group shot with my Cooper M38 in 20VT using reformed and fully prepped R-P 221F brass:
It surely will never win a BR match, but is plenty good enough for the squirrels and chucks I shoot here. Haven't heard any complaints yet......
It surely will never win a BR match, but is plenty good enough for the squirrels and chucks I shoot here. Haven't heard any complaints yet......
Whats so wrong with the Remington brass? If your going to turn your necks a little anyway whats the big issue? Really? I haven't ever used any of that brass so this is a for real question, not a smart butt remark? Whats wrong with the brass that is already available for the fireball? Lee
Lee, I've just never had good results with RP brass. The case weights have never been consistent. The necks are not uniform, and in limited measuring I've found the entire case is not uniform either. Neck turning can't fix that problem. It never seems to last as long as any of the other brands. In the same batch, I will neck size to the same bushing size, yet bullet seating will take varies amounts of pressure.
I've gotten to the point if Lapua doesn't make brass for the caliber, I stay away. Lapua brass flat out takes that variable out of the accuracy equation for me.
I've gotten to the point if Lapua doesn't make brass for the caliber, I stay away. Lapua brass flat out takes that variable out of the accuracy equation for me.
Lee: I've had Remington brass that varied so much that you could look at the case mouth with the naked eye and see one side that was tissue paper thin and the other side noticably thicker. Measured the neck walls with a tubing micrometer and found differences of .004". Even if it were outside neck turned, the differences still extend down inside the case, probably all the way to the head area, and the reason many of them have a banana shape. Pure junk, and I will not use them.
Buddy has a 20 VT and a 221 FB he makes some pretty nice brass out of 222 Lapua.
I think that the Woodchuck Den sells 221Rem brass preformed from Lapua 223 Rem Match brass. ;D All that it takes is money.
I'm selling a .270 Win to a friend, so today I loaded up 20 rounds to go with the gun. I wasn't going to part with any of my expensive Nosler brass (which in this caliber isn't all that great) so I used a box of Remington brass I had on hand. Out of curiousity I checked runout on all the loaded rounds. 12 of them were not bad, with runout less than .003. 4 were not so great with runout between .004 and .007. 4 of them the runout was around .009, and two of them were so bad you could see a wobble not only at the tip of the bullet but in the case itself. Looked like a banana on a stick. They would all chamber, but I have to wonder how they will end up shooting. I marked all 8 of the bad ones with a Sharpie and will warn him to use them for fouling the barrel and checking general POI.
CatShooter
robbor said:
Actually, it does NOT mean that they need more requests. It means that they have no intention of making it.
It was hard to get Remington to make .221 FireBall on a regular basis, until the 17 FireBall came along, and then they had the need to have a regular line running 7 days a week.
If the R-P Headstamp is a problem to you, them make your 20 VarTag cases out of .223 Lapua cases - it is soooooo easy, plus you have the advantage of being able to turn your necks to exactly fit your chamber neck.
I went through three .204 Rugers and gave up on the cartridge and rebarreled to rebarreled to .20 Tactical because of the poor quality of .204 cases (by ALL the makers)...
... but I have a .222 Mag Bench Rest rifle and I have had good success with R-P cases (with some sorting), so go figure. ???
---
Hey Skeets... Que' Paso'
Skeets, it's a religious thing with some people
Meow
I've always thought about having a 20cal and to me, the little VarTarg was a sweet looker. Never went that way though. The other day I was looking around the range for any good pick-ups and spied a large handful of empties and looked at one. It was unfamiliar to me and the headstamp didn't help me any either. It read "270" and under that "76". Then checking the coffee cans nailed to the range roof support posts (for empties) I spied one in there that was an unfired round...same stuff. Not a tiny mark what-so-ever on the primer. Not sure why it was even in there with the assorted empties that shooters leave behind. Turns out to be a 20cal. But quite strange in that it appears to be like mil-surp stuff. You know, ugly brown brass, laquer covered, and red laquer sealer around the primer and around the bullet / neck juncture. Just like most of the 7.62x39 stuff looks. And the bullet is a very long, full metal jacket that resembles a VLD shape. It's very sweet looking and if this is what a 20VarTarg is, I want one. It measures .391" at the base and the case is 1.550" long. It's about 1.185" to the lower shoulder and 1.345" to upper shoulder, with approximate .210" long neck. The bullet is .220" and the OAL loaded round is 2.225". Remember that some of the dimensions will include that damn laquer coating and may not be exact, but can you folks tell me what this critter is?? I got confused by the military appearance of the thing combined with it being a 20cal. I couldn't combine the two thoughts. I'm holding it beside a FC .222 case and that base is .370". I just don't get it. Please help if you can.
ab_bentley
I fix stuff, sometimes....
Pictures!!!! Adam
A correction to CatShooter's post; "not at this time" meant exactly that, not at this time. It most certainly did not mean "no."We introduce two or three new products each year, and take the requests we receive from a variety of sources into account when deciding which to address first. We've also received a ton of requests for 300 Win Mag, 7mm Rem Mag, 7-08 and a host of others that we have to consider and evaluate. The 221 FB has been pretty high on a fairly short list for a while now, and I suspect that at some point we will get to it. The 7mm and 300 Mags would be an entirely new production line to us, due to the .532" head dimensions and the addition of a belt, and would be a bit problematic. The 7-08 would be a slam dunk, requireing little more than a new necking process change to our existing 243, 260, 308, etc., line, no problem there. The 221 FB would be a bit more work, thanks to the length change (would require a different draw process, most likely), but it is a head size we already produce. That makes it a bit easier, and a tad more attractive to us. Especially the production crew. Bottom line here is, we do listen, and the 221 FB has a good bit going for it here. The requests do make a difference, and we want to hear from you about things like this. Keep 'em coming.
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