22 Grendel and 22 ARC reamer prints
- Thread starter MTSLW
- Start date
Here's a 6 Grendel print. Of course you'll have a different neck and freebore dimensions. Scroll to the one called a 6 Major Match.
Diagrams
The .875 is the new version and the .900 is being discontinued. They both work the same but the .875 can simply fit more barrels. Here’s the reamer print for my 6 Grendel that I won the 2019 …
www.ezellcustomrifles.com
Now, a print for the new whiz bang 22 ARC, side by side would just be awesome.
Looks like the only significant difference in those two is the parent case is mentioned on the wildcat but left off of the ARC. Lol! That and the freebore are very different in those two. Very much the same, other than a couple of minor things that don't really distinguish one case from another.Here you go
IOW, the new whiz bang 22 ARC is in fact a 22 Grendel but with SAAMI approval.
alf
Silver $$ Contributor
In fact at the bottom it says to use standard 6.5 Grendel headspace gauge.
That's .0004 as in tenths.
Right you are! Ok, so it really is a 22 Grendel without the cool name.
The neck dia is .004" smaller than what my PTG print shows. Oops - scanned the 22 Grendel & 22 Grinch one after the other, and the Grendel print seems to have disappeared into cyber space. This is the grinch.
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While you’re right that it is 99% a 22 Grendel, by Hornady standardizing it with the new “ARC” cartridge name, it will SAAMI the round and also call out a 7 twist rifling as the standard for manufacturers which is a huge bonus. So basically they just went legit instead of it needing to be done in a dark room somewhere by the crazy wildcat crew that we’re not supposed to talk about 
I love all the attention Hornady is getting to be honest. The more advancements they come up with the more options we have in he long run. The 22ARC and Grendel are both wins in my book, now you’ll be able to buy good factory ammo
I love all the attention Hornady is getting to be honest. The more advancements they come up with the more options we have in he long run. The 22ARC and Grendel are both wins in my book, now you’ll be able to buy good factory ammo
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Huh? Wildcatters have nothing to hide. I don't get that statement a bit. What Hornady has done is to take a proven widcatter's design, commercialize it, market it, and claim it to be the next coming of Christ in terms of cartridges. Lol! That's just the truth of the matter but yes, saami standardizing any cartridge has it's benefits. It's still the same cartridge it always was to handloaders but with better availability of what I call junk brass...unless that gets better than it is at the moment. Their poor brass quality for anything AR15 based might not be a bad thing, as it may serve as a limiting factor to anyone wanting to tip the powder canister too much. But this cartridge shines at higher pressures and can only do so in a good bolt gun. Bolt thrust is the reason it's so limited at around 52,000 psi along with bolt construction within the ar platform. In other words, they're holding it back to market it toward the single most popular gun in the US...the ar15. Again, a marketing scheme that is based on sales, not performance. Maybe a combination of the two but nevertheless, it's being sold as a way to boost the performance of one rifle design but will hold bolt guns back.
I've been a fan and user of Grendel based cartridges about as long as anybody so I love it but I also see what's being done on the backs of others and one company will benefit most from that work.
I guess you asked for it when you alluded to wildcatters as dark room bad people when the shoe fits the other foot a lot better. It's all about sales. Nothing wrong with that as long as they are upfront about it. Wildcatters already know and have for a long time, the potential of the parent Grendel case. It's a good case! The inner diameter is what creates more bolt thrust and that bolt thrust is the enemy of the AR15 platform. It was designed for 223 internal cases where the original design got good performance from it and handled more pressure and hence, bolt thrust.
It's up to them. I hope it yields better availability of high quality brass. I'll worry about the rest.
Sorry, my smiley faces didn’t show up on my original post. Yes, you’re right. I’m not arguing with you at all. They are solely concerned about SAAMI pressures since they are the factory producing the rounds, 48,000 is the limit for it and yes because someone will shoot it in an AR. Liabilities…. People sue, tough world to live in these days. They even say that it will be much better in a bolt gun!
Padom's post mentioning the 220 Thunderbolt reminded me of the 6 HAGAR that I built for XTC Hi Power before I got interested in the 6 RAT. I'd busted my butt buying R-P 30 Rem brass to form HAGAR brass, finally buying Jamison 25 Rem brass to form my 600yd brass on. None of it was very satisfactory, as both those parent cartridges were designed with much lower pressures in mind, mostly to be used in slide action rifles. The brass was as good as I could make it, dimensionally, but it didn't last, and the large primer pocket was only a part of the reason. All the work that went into forming 1200pcs of HAGAR, and then to realize that it was only good for two firings at best, and then only if loaded with rather mild loads.
The Krieger bbl that John Holliger did for my 1st upper was a good shooter, even with homemade brass, and it only got better when Hornady finally started making factory HAGAR. It was like the 2nd coming when I bought my first box of 500pcs and shot some loads assembled in that brass. The accuracy went up exponentially, and I could expect the 600yd loads to last for several cycles without primer pockets getting loose. Looking back at both the HAGAR & RAT rifles - at least after Sierra brought out their .22cal 77gr MK - I always thought that the only real advantage to either of the 6mm rounds was at 600yds. I don't recall ever shooting nearly as many cleans at 300 with either of the 6s as I did with my 223/77gr loads. Eventually, I got tired of chasing my tail with the 6s, and started shooting an Eliseo RTM in 6.5x47 Lapua that I built around a Pierce TG action, and when that got old, I simply went back to shooting a good 223 AR spacegun with a 28" 1-7.7 twist Krieger.
But I thought a lot about building a Howa Mini in 220 Thunderbolt - if only they'd made the Mini with a correct boltface....
The Krieger bbl that John Holliger did for my 1st upper was a good shooter, even with homemade brass, and it only got better when Hornady finally started making factory HAGAR. It was like the 2nd coming when I bought my first box of 500pcs and shot some loads assembled in that brass. The accuracy went up exponentially, and I could expect the 600yd loads to last for several cycles without primer pockets getting loose. Looking back at both the HAGAR & RAT rifles - at least after Sierra brought out their .22cal 77gr MK - I always thought that the only real advantage to either of the 6mm rounds was at 600yds. I don't recall ever shooting nearly as many cleans at 300 with either of the 6s as I did with my 223/77gr loads. Eventually, I got tired of chasing my tail with the 6s, and started shooting an Eliseo RTM in 6.5x47 Lapua that I built around a Pierce TG action, and when that got old, I simply went back to shooting a good 223 AR spacegun with a 28" 1-7.7 twist Krieger.
But I thought a lot about building a Howa Mini in 220 Thunderbolt - if only they'd made the Mini with a correct boltface....
I'm assuming this is JGS's interpretation of what the 22 ARC will be, since I don't think Hornady's 22 ARC prints have yet been officially approved by SAAMI. Somewhere I heard a guess, I think it was by Hornady's Jayden Quinlan (Ledzep) over on Sniper's Hide, that SAAMI might finalize 22 ARC print January 2024.
Ok, for starters, that's .0004, not .004 in the previous post that you quoted. So frankly, unless there are much more significant changes, what difference does it make. I got my info that I posted previously from a reamer maker,(the one making the reamers per engineers blueprints) before it was public nor saami announced. In the end, I didn't and I don't question a thou or so anywhere, much less .0004. Granted, there will be a saami version in PRINT and there will be other variations that are different, for a number of reasons. So I'm wondering, what difference does it make if we're talking a thou or less, anywhere, in terms of saami or not? Keep in mind that saami's prints and tolerances are generally pretty liberal. Oops...that phrase made my stomach turn a little. Lol!
Ultimately, everything has tolerances...reamers, dies, brass and even the reamer and reamer prints themselves.
So, what exactly is the point. Seriously? Are you a reamer maker, smith or what? I ask these things in all sincerity and not to sound like an arse. I just honestly don't know when we stop splitting hairs and just shoot. Engineers draw prints with stated tolerances and then reamers and dies are made to those. SMH, but maybe I'm missing something. Again, not ill will intended at all. If there is a change in the saami reamer dimensions, it will very likely be reflected in the die reamers supplied to Hornady and other makers, all made on a production line that has significantly bigger tolerances than we're talking about here... .0004 or less.
This is all an inexact science compared to the numbers that get spouted on the internet, more often than not...believe it or not.
An example of my point is that Redding's engineers changed their die dimensions for a 6.5 Grendel die several years afterward without anyone knowing. Same kinda deal I think. It was less than a thou, best I can measure and account for springback, etc. You may know all of this very well. I don't know and am not assuming that, but look at a reamer print and lets go from there.
In the end, it appears that Hornady intentionally made the 22 ARC a copy of a 22 Grendel, minus any small and irrelevant changes within a tiny amount, one way or the other...which actually makes good sense in every way.
According to the reamer maker for hornady's chamber and dies, for what I assume will be submitted to saami...the "new" 22 arc is in fact a 22 Grendel. I don't think this is a big secret or I would not post it anywhere. It will come out anyway.
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troupe
Gold $$ Contributor
I will be looking for a barrel and bolt for my AR's. I have a 6 Arc that good ole Stan Taylor helped me with before we all lost him. It is a shooter and I will have a 22 Arc, maybe even a bolt gun for the fun. It would be a good reason to use my 223 700 action with a little work.
Just FYI- Ledzep is Miles Neville of Hornady, not Jayden Quinlan, I don't think Jayden does much online. And you are correct, they think approval will be in January. After the Federal reamer mess with the 224 Valkyrie (changed from the development reamer everyone starting using before approval), I will wait until it is official.
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