22/6XC

[bcott]

Now that several of us are shooting Tubb T2K rifles chalmbered for the 6XC, I ask the following question: Is anyone shooting the 6XC necked down to 224 yet?? Water capacity of the 22/250 with 55 hornady bullet seated to just above the shoulder/neck junction is 41.4gr of water. The 22/250AI is 47.1gr water. The 22/6XC holds 45.4 gr. of water. Even though many people have shot the 22/250 it is not an inherently accurate case. I believe that the 22/6XC would produce better accuracy. Any comments?, results?

Carl L.

 

[vlcakc]

Some folks and a lot of dead critters might disagree with your comment that the .22/250 is not an inherently accurate cartridge. If I ever receive the Tubb 6XC brass that is on order, I intend to try it in my .22/250AI's. I'm mostly looking for better case life than with the W/R/F stuff currently used. Any increase in accuracy would probably be a result of more uniform cases than the difference in shoulder angle,30 vs 40 degrees). I probably can't shoot much better than the groups I currently get with Federal and Remington brass, but they expand primer pockets after a few firings. I have some Winchester cases that hold up a little better, but were not very consistent in weight and neck thickness. So, if SSS ever sees fit to ship the brass, I'll post a thread on the results. Vic

 

[bcott]

The comment on the 22/250 not being inherently accurate is not something I made up. When I was discussing the 22/6XC with Don Hagerman of McBros HE made the comment. Also commented that the 220 Swift WAS one of those cartridges that is inherently accurate.

In order to get better quality brass for my 22/??s I have been using Norma 22/250 brass. As a predator caller I do not require huge quantities of brass. It is expensive, but it gets rid of having to work over the brass. At least it did for me. I do not know how much brass prep you do. I turn necks on cases for those rifles with tight necked chambers. But that is it. Plus there is no need to fireform, except for the AI version. Another interesting fact about the 22/250Norma brass. I made up 216 6XC cases from Norma brass. I did NOT get one of the mushroom shoulders. I do not know why. Just the way it was. I sure wish Lapua made 22/250 brass.

I made up some 22/250AI cases from Lapua 243 brass. I have a 12 station Universal turret press. That case forming put a load on it. Surprising, it was easier going with my Bonanza Coax. Go figger. Anyway, I abandoned that project. More work than I wanted to do. By the way, the 20/250AI and the 20/243 w/30 degree shoulder have almost identical H2O capacities. 47.4 vs 47.7gr. This is with the bullets seated to the proper depth in the cases. I squirt the water in through the primer flash hole and reweigh. I would go the 22/243 w/30, before having another 22/250AI made up. Longer neck and no occasional feeding problems.

I have ordered out the reamer for the 22/6XC. I already have a 28" PacNor SSSM, 224, 1/14twist, #4contour, six flutes barrel. It is now a waiting game.

Carl L.

 

[vlcakc]

My .22/250 AI's are PD rifles, so I ordered a "no turn neck" reamer, not wanting to neck turn the hundreds of cases needed. I have neck turned a few cases to clean up the necks to see if it helped accuracy,it did). I use an RCBS Big Max press for case forming. I once formed a batch of .444 cases to 7JDJ#2,7/08 imp 40 degree rimmed) for 500 meter pistol competition. The forming was pretty much effortless, but very time consuming. I also quickly gave up on forming .22/250 AI from .243 as too much work. Bought my first .22/250, a very nice HB sporter on a M98 action, in 1959 along with 40 new Norma .250 cases for $60. The Norma cases must have been pretty soft as they would show pressure signs with loads the Winchester brass used later did not. Since the rumors that Norma brass is still on the soft side persist to this day I haven't tried any lately. Maybe the Tubb/Norma 6XC brass will be better. Vic

 

[Taffy]

A friend of mine here in the UK and I have just ordered two bbl's from Pac-Nor SSSM in .204cal. We have ordered a custom reamer from dave Kiff and all this will be mated to an RPA Quadlite Action. The delivery system will be the 6x47 Swiss match case from Ruag.
These bbl's will be a 8.5 twist with 28" of actual rifling. The project started with wanting to deliver a heavy .224 bullet along way! We have settled on the 75 A-Max or 8o Berger. The main issue was to try and get a delivery system that was inherently accurate,case) consistency over the chrono,and a velocity that was predictable at 1000yds. I personally was recommended to use the 22x243 Middlestead. I deliberately shied away from this as the bbl wear is excessive, how the .224 Satan will be on bbl's we shall wait and see.
We are hoping to get the project up and running in the next two months and if anyone is still interested I will let you know how we get on.

 

[JER]

Taffy, you will need at least a 1 in 8 barrel to spin the two bullets you mentioned properly. 1 in 8.5 is taking a chance, particularly with any 80 grain bullet.

I went with a 1 in 7 for my AR-15.

 

[Cheechako]

Interesting. Back in the 1940s, in the first years of Benchrest shooting, the 22 Varminter was one of the frequent winners. Now that it's called the 22-250 it's no longer inherently accurate? Personally, I don't believe that any cartridge size or shape is "inherently" accurate. Some are just easier to load, such as the 222 Remington, 308 Winchester, and 6PPC. It's the barrel, bullet, and shooter that make for accuracy. Some guys in Hunter benchrest,HBR) are using a case that most would swear is the most "inherently" inaccurate around - the 30-30. With nothing more than a shoulder adjustment the 30 Aardvark will shoot with the best of them. JMHO

Ray

 

[bcott]

It didn't take the bench rest boys long to drop the 22/250 either. As I recall, Mike Walker's triple deuce caused that. Not sure about that as I did not get into shooting until '61. I do believe AND agree with the McBros guy about the inherent accuracy of the 22/250. Even though there are thousands and thousands of coyotes sent to the "great gutpile in the sky" by that cartridge.

If I have any more problems with my 20/250 and 20/243 I think I will return to the 22/250AI, inherently accurate or not. It has not been hard to get 1/2MOA out of any 22/250 or AI that I have owned. Except for one on a Jap 6.5... At least I do not have bullets coming apart out of the muzzle. Plus I do not think a coyote cares whether he is smacked with a 50gr. 204 or a 55gr 224. bcott

 

[Buzzbee]

We predict your 20-250 and 20-243 will be on the selling block in less than a year, you get dime on a dollar.

 

[bcott]

Who is we??? Do you have a mouse in your pocket?? You might be right about my going away from the 20/243. The 20/250 seems to be turning into a winner though. I normally do not sell guns, I rebarrel them. I do not know how that will compute in your "dime on the dollar" prophecy. Carl L.

 

[jadams]

.22/6XC NO! .22/6XCx47 LAPUA YES!
The 6XC is a very good cartridge. Dave Tubb has done his home work and provided us with a excellent cartridge. It's to bad that the brass suppliers have let him down so bad! I have a good supply of the Tubbs #1 brass,Hard brass, primer pockets less than desirable ) I also have a good supply of the Tubbs #2 brass,it's O.K. not good but O.K.) Again I also have a supply of the Tubbs #3 brass, it's O.K after you sort out the over sized rims and the undercut extracter groves) I'd sure like to trade in about 1000 pcs. of #'s 1,2,3 for the new Norma! When it gets here.
I do own a rifle chambered in RUAG 6x47 SM. Also while waiting for the Lapua 47mm brass to arrive I formed 200 pcs. of .22x47 Lapua using the RUAG brass. It leaves a lot to be desired, Irrespective of Mr. Klenchblaize or Mr. Changeling's high opinion. I would rate the 6x47 SM. RUAG brass on a par with the Tubbs #1. A person would be much better advised to use Remington .22-250 brass reformed as needed.

there is light at the end of the tunnel!
Back to the 6XC. Now that the 6.5x47 Lapua brass is here, we may have, no. We have been saved! I think in the near future what were going to find out is that we have the best brass we've ever had in this case size!

6XCx47 Lapua !!!
I am having Mr. Dave Kiff of Pacific tool grind me a new reamer It is a standard 6XC reamer with the neck length decreased
by about .055",to be determined by Mr. Kiff). Now the chamber is at the proper length to use the 47mm Lapua brass. All we have to do is load it and with a reduced load fire it one time and we will have the best brass ever available for the 6XC as we know it. Due to the Dimensional difference we will have to rename it. It's my reamer and I've decided to call it the 6XCx47 Lapua.,ADAMS PRINT)
I have requested Dave to make it a no turn reamer with a .273" neck for my bolt gun. If it were to be used as a xc. gun, the neck would be .275". The Fired & reloaded brass runs about .001" thicker in the neck than Lapua 6Br. brass.
There will be no need for any new dies. All of the standard 6XC dies will work.

If you happen to be already shooting a 6XC to use the new 47mm Lapua brass all you have to do is have your gunsmith or machinist
cut or grind .055" off of your existing sizing die., Mr. Kiff will give us the proper dimension this week) It may be +/-.002 or.003"
All of the above would apply to the question. .22/6XCx47 Lapua.I know because I have one. It is a .22x47 Lapua soon to be a .22/6XCx47 Lapua.
John
P.S. I can hear Ray now, NO, not another 6/250.

 

[bcott]

JA: I agree with you and your opinions. I did not consider the 6.5X47Lapua as it was somewhere in the future when I did the 22XC,April 06). At least your method assures a minimum brass rejection percentage.

I am a little concerned about the length of the neck on the 22XC/6.5x47Lappua. The neck on the 22XC is only .281 long. I have a .040 freebore. This keeps the 55grNoslerBT out of the neck/shoulder junction. If you loose .055" on the Lapua deal, wouldn't you either be in the neck/shoulder junction or be very short on neck/bullet interface? How much neck length would you have if you just necked the 6.5x47Lapua down to 22cal?

Our twist rates ARE different. Mine is the 1/14". I am having another 22XC made up on a Rem700LH and it will have a 1/12", having an eye on shooting the Nosler 60gr partition. I have a bunch of boxes of those left over from my 22/250AI days.

My test barrel is screwed into a T2K. When I am finished working with it, I plan on having it mounted on one of my Nesika actions. Turns out the threads on both the Nesika T actions and T2K are the same threads per in. They will not interchange with the Rem700s though. Didn't really think about that much until I wound up with several different actions laying around without barrels.

 

[DRGreysun]

Mr. Bcott,

If you will please sir, tell us how your 22XC is shooting and with what are you shooting?

D R

 

[bcott]

I am shooting a T2K w/ a PacNor 5groove #4 SSSM barrel. I have kind of stabilized on a couple of loads that gives 3700fps with the 55gr NoslerBT and another that gives 3800fps, same bullet and a half grain more powder. I am using Varget, and both Fed 210 and Win. Large Rifle primers. I am shooting with a Harris bipod on a piece of thick carpet which lays on a concrete bench. Scope is a Nightforce 3.5x15x50 NXS. About 1/2" is what I am getting. Good enough for my purposes. I realize that this is fairly sloppy load workup but I am fighting a time frame. I want to use this cartridge for the forthcoming predator calling year, and this starts 1 September +/- a few.

I have not done any testing since the 8th of July. I had lens replacement in both eyes, one at a time. No shooting. No load lifting, none of the things everybody else does. I will be cleared to start shooting Aug 9th. I think I have just enough fairly fresh fired empties to sniff to keep from getting withdrawals.

If you are in SoCal you might be just over the hill from me. I am in Hell Centro. Carl L.

 

[Taffy]

Thanks JER slight mistake, am having a 1/8 twist.
barrel has arrived here at last, have a good stock of the Ruag 6x47 brass and an RPA Interceptor ready to receive the bbl.
There is an article in Small caliber news by Bruce Potts my co-conspirator in getting this project under way, that might be of interest, on his 20x47 satan!
Will keep you posted.