.22-6mm Rem Improved
- Thread starter wboggs
- Start date
Bill -
Unsolicited.......
.22- 6mm will be over-bore capacity for all but the super heaviest .224" cal bullets. In the far corner of the envelope, some of the extra
( last few grains ) of powder will be little more than "filler"; and present no appreciable velocity gains. Barrel life suffers, as a consequence
As an alternative, I'll mention this:
A .22-6mm reamer could be run-in "short", to obtain a chamber w/ a nominal .466" base diam.
The parent brass to be used for this .224" cal wildcat would be 7 X 64 Brenneke ( Norma, or RWS ).
A " perch" is used for advancing the brass up-into the case forming die. The perch is made from a stock .308 shellholder, a flat-head machine screw w/ head diam kept to < .470" ; and two jam nuts ( one above, one below the shell holder ).
In-use, excess screw length is positioned in the primer ram slot of the press ram ( my press is a Rockchucker ).
Case capacity of this wildcat is approx 2gr < 6mm Remington, dependent on powder and bullet combo under review.
Brass can be shoulder shoved & necked-down, using a stock 6.5 X 55 Swedish FL size die; w/ the expander ball & mandrel removed.
The wildcat would form w/ a 25* shoulder angle, and fire-form to its final 26* angle. 25* shoulder angle of the 6.5 X 55 die makes
shoulder shove and neck-down comparatively easy.
*** Formed brass emerges from the die w/ a nominal .224" cal inside neck diam, and of course... very thick necks walls. ***
Brass is rough cut-off for case length , then detail trimmed to final case oal
NO custom dies and NO custom reamer are required !
Cases would get an simple whisk inside neck ream only if a doughnut is evident. ( Brass I've formed didn't seem to have one,
just uniformly thick neck walls w/ a .224" ID ).
Cases would be given an outside neck turn, to give the final neck wall thickness and diam desired.
I use a 6mm version of this wildcat forming method, which I call " Deep 6 ".
.25 cal and even 6.5mm variants could just as easily be made.
Besides the portent of better barrel life, the smaller case capacity .224" cal wildcat I propose wouldhave brass that is VERY robust, since it is formed from the bottom-most portion of the parent 7X64 brass. The cases will take a LR primer, and have the long neck of the
6mm Rem lineage.
I have used Norma brass exclusively thus far ( for "Deep 6" ). It forms easily to the desired wildcat' specs, and is of great quality and reasonable price. I have brass w/ over 15 loadings on them, and they are not even close to being "done"
With regards,
357Mag
Unsolicited.......
.22- 6mm will be over-bore capacity for all but the super heaviest .224" cal bullets. In the far corner of the envelope, some of the extra
( last few grains ) of powder will be little more than "filler"; and present no appreciable velocity gains. Barrel life suffers, as a consequence
As an alternative, I'll mention this:
A .22-6mm reamer could be run-in "short", to obtain a chamber w/ a nominal .466" base diam.
The parent brass to be used for this .224" cal wildcat would be 7 X 64 Brenneke ( Norma, or RWS ).
A " perch" is used for advancing the brass up-into the case forming die. The perch is made from a stock .308 shellholder, a flat-head machine screw w/ head diam kept to < .470" ; and two jam nuts ( one above, one below the shell holder ).
In-use, excess screw length is positioned in the primer ram slot of the press ram ( my press is a Rockchucker ).
Case capacity of this wildcat is approx 2gr < 6mm Remington, dependent on powder and bullet combo under review.
Brass can be shoulder shoved & necked-down, using a stock 6.5 X 55 Swedish FL size die; w/ the expander ball & mandrel removed.
The wildcat would form w/ a 25* shoulder angle, and fire-form to its final 26* angle. 25* shoulder angle of the 6.5 X 55 die makes
shoulder shove and neck-down comparatively easy.
*** Formed brass emerges from the die w/ a nominal .224" cal inside neck diam, and of course... very thick necks walls. ***
Brass is rough cut-off for case length , then detail trimmed to final case oal
NO custom dies and NO custom reamer are required !
Cases would get an simple whisk inside neck ream only if a doughnut is evident. ( Brass I've formed didn't seem to have one,
just uniformly thick neck walls w/ a .224" ID ).
Cases would be given an outside neck turn, to give the final neck wall thickness and diam desired.
I use a 6mm version of this wildcat forming method, which I call " Deep 6 ".
.25 cal and even 6.5mm variants could just as easily be made.
Besides the portent of better barrel life, the smaller case capacity .224" cal wildcat I propose wouldhave brass that is VERY robust, since it is formed from the bottom-most portion of the parent 7X64 brass. The cases will take a LR primer, and have the long neck of the
6mm Rem lineage.
I have used Norma brass exclusively thus far ( for "Deep 6" ). It forms easily to the desired wildcat' specs, and is of great quality and reasonable price. I have brass w/ over 15 loadings on them, and they are not even close to being "done"
With regards,
357Mag
Have a 22-6AI reamer. For giggles I recut a factory takeoff 223 barrel. The 22/250AI I am currently using for one of my yote truck guns was built using another 223 takeoff that has some light pitting ahead of chamber. The 22/250AI will run a 50BT @ 3780fps with 39gr of IMR4895. The one load I tested in the 22-6AI barrel ran 90fps faster @ 3870fps with the 50BT. IIRC I used RL15??? Thought it would be a bit faster but haven't really done much experimenting with it. Tore gun apart for now and using receiver for another project. Need to get back to it. Both have a bit of room as far as pressure goes. The 22/250AI shoots frankly unbelievable accuracy wise so just haven't been in a big hurry with the 22-6. Kinda hard to justify more powder yet if it isn't going to humiliate the 22/250AI by more than 100fps.
I have a 14 twist Shilen I had planned for a short lived 22-6AI. Have a 9twist Krieger but a bit hesitant to eat of a Krieger in short order just to have something different. Thinking the 75Amax would make a descent LR yote rig but then I have an XC and a 6x47L so why another LR yote rig when there aren't near as many yotes anymore do to mange and more hunting/trapping pressure with fur prices.
So many dreams and so few barrel blanks to experiment with.lol
I have a 14 twist Shilen I had planned for a short lived 22-6AI. Have a 9twist Krieger but a bit hesitant to eat of a Krieger in short order just to have something different. Thinking the 75Amax would make a descent LR yote rig but then I have an XC and a 6x47L so why another LR yote rig when there aren't near as many yotes anymore do to mange and more hunting/trapping pressure with fur prices.
So many dreams and so few barrel blanks to experiment with.lol
wboggs
Gold $$ Contributor
Interesting data from SDWhirlwind. Since the improved 22-250 gives Swift capacity, it looks like about 100 fps gain with the .22-6mm improved. What barrel length did you use? Also, you were using 50BT. I want to use 75-80 grs. and have a 30" Krieger with 1-8 twist. I would think the larger capacity would do even better with this combination. I do wonder about the Improved vs. standard case and suspect the only advantage would be a reduction in brass flow with almost no velocity gain.
Let me know your thoughts.
Thanks
Bill
Let me know your thoughts.
Thanks
Bill
Both my 22/250AI and the 22/6AI I did were using factory takeoff 223's @ 24". I surely would suspect that barrel length, and especially with the 6mm version would see a respectable increase with a longer tube??? At least it seems like a reasonable assumption. Also a nice smooth and consistent aftermarket barrel like a Krieger would probably be a better representation of the larger and improved cases of both than a factory hammer forged $19.95 special 
With the amount of taper of a standard 6mm case I would think the Improved version would really be a no brainer if one was really after all the velocity they could get, especially with the heavier bullets and the goal was LR use vs. medium range yote grenades.
I continually read of all these 4000 or even 4300fps loads with similar case capacity and guess I don't know what I am doing because I just don't see it, perhaps with the occassional barrel but don't seem like it would be the norm with my experiences. This in reference mainly to rechambered factory barrels! I can see a reasonably long barrel life say at an honest 4000 maybe but not much beyond. Kinda like all the claims of 3600+fps with the 223AI's. I haven't seen it! Must be me and the SD weather. LOL
In all honesty the 22/6mmAI is one 'nasty' looking cartridge however. What is it Dr Evil says??.....a fr***in laser?????
With the amount of taper of a standard 6mm case I would think the Improved version would really be a no brainer if one was really after all the velocity they could get, especially with the heavier bullets and the goal was LR use vs. medium range yote grenades.I continually read of all these 4000 or even 4300fps loads with similar case capacity and guess I don't know what I am doing because I just don't see it, perhaps with the occassional barrel but don't seem like it would be the norm with my experiences. This in reference mainly to rechambered factory barrels! I can see a reasonably long barrel life say at an honest 4000 maybe but not much beyond. Kinda like all the claims of 3600+fps with the 223AI's. I haven't seen it! Must be me and the SD weather. LOL
In all honesty the 22/6mmAI is one 'nasty' looking cartridge however. What is it Dr Evil says??.....a fr***in laser?????
wboggs
Gold $$ Contributor
SDWhirlwind
Have discussed the .22-6mmRem with Lonnie Hummell in some detail since he has used it extensively. Must use 1-8.5 twist for best velocity and stabilization for the 75-80 gr. bullets. Velocity of 36-3700 fps using R22-R25 powder with good case life using sorted Rem. factory brass and a chamber neck of .259-.260 which requires very little neck turning.
That will get some attention in SD.
I'm now going to explore barrels, chambering, etc. Nice thing to look forward to.
Bill
Have discussed the .22-6mmRem with Lonnie Hummell in some detail since he has used it extensively. Must use 1-8.5 twist for best velocity and stabilization for the 75-80 gr. bullets. Velocity of 36-3700 fps using R22-R25 powder with good case life using sorted Rem. factory brass and a chamber neck of .259-.260 which requires very little neck turning.
That will get some attention in SD.
I'm now going to explore barrels, chambering, etc. Nice thing to look forward to.
Bill
Bill -
For clarification on use of 6.5 X 55 FL die to neck-down 7 X 64 brass to .224" cal.......
The process of shoulder shove & neck down of 7X64 brass in the die, results in formed brass emerging from the die w/ a nominal
.224" neck ID ( calibre ). As can be imagined, the newly-formed case' neck walls are also thick.
If any doughnut or internal neck inconsistency is noted, an inside neck ream can be performed. ( On cases I formed for eventual use as a new 6mm wildcat, the newly-formed neck ID's appeared to be uniformly .224" cal ; w/o doughnuts ).
After case trim to desired oal, a .224" neck turn arbor is inserted; for use in turning necks wall thickness to final OD & thicknesss desired.
Cases have long necks, owing to use of a .22-6mm reamer run-in "short". The chamber accepts the long neck.
This long neck keeps the " turbulence point " of the powder combustion inside the case neck, and not outside impinging directly on the leade'. That, plus the controlled case capacity...... are a forecst for good barrel life ( better than a .22-6mm or .22-6mmAI ).
Best of luck in your endeavors !
Regards,
357Mag
IMHO, final case capacity of this notional .244" cal wildcat would be more practical than the larger .22-6mm, esp for shooting bullets lighter than 75gr.
For clarification on use of 6.5 X 55 FL die to neck-down 7 X 64 brass to .224" cal.......
The process of shoulder shove & neck down of 7X64 brass in the die, results in formed brass emerging from the die w/ a nominal
.224" neck ID ( calibre ). As can be imagined, the newly-formed case' neck walls are also thick.
If any doughnut or internal neck inconsistency is noted, an inside neck ream can be performed. ( On cases I formed for eventual use as a new 6mm wildcat, the newly-formed neck ID's appeared to be uniformly .224" cal ; w/o doughnuts ).
After case trim to desired oal, a .224" neck turn arbor is inserted; for use in turning necks wall thickness to final OD & thicknesss desired.
Cases have long necks, owing to use of a .22-6mm reamer run-in "short". The chamber accepts the long neck.
This long neck keeps the " turbulence point " of the powder combustion inside the case neck, and not outside impinging directly on the leade'. That, plus the controlled case capacity...... are a forecst for good barrel life ( better than a .22-6mm or .22-6mmAI ).
Best of luck in your endeavors !
Regards,
357Mag
IMHO, final case capacity of this notional .244" cal wildcat would be more practical than the larger .22-6mm, esp for shooting bullets lighter than 75gr.
I've had the 22-6mm and the 22-6mm AI, Both 8-twist barrels and 80grn class bullets. The 22-6mm AI is awesome for speed and trajectory but brutal on barrels.
The 22-6mm, H-1000, Fed 210 match primer, rem brass was an awesome combination of performance and barrel life. I shot this rifle as a huning rig , f-class gun , prairre dog gun and in tactical competition. Last F-class 600 yrd match i won with it it had 2200 rounds down it when i started the match.
I've sense started building 22-243's but a 22-250 AI will give almost identical performance with the right powder choice. The fast twist 22's are tuff to beat under 600 yrds in matches and hunting situations.
IMHO, Wayne.
The 22-6mm, H-1000, Fed 210 match primer, rem brass was an awesome combination of performance and barrel life. I shot this rifle as a huning rig , f-class gun , prairre dog gun and in tactical competition. Last F-class 600 yrd match i won with it it had 2200 rounds down it when i started the match.
I've sense started building 22-243's but a 22-250 AI will give almost identical performance with the right powder choice. The fast twist 22's are tuff to beat under 600 yrds in matches and hunting situations.
IMHO, Wayne.
wboggs
Gold $$ Contributor
Preliminary testing with 80.5 Bergers, 210M, Norma MRP, gives 3535fps and 100yd. 3 shot grps of 0.12". This load is 0.02" off rifling and about 1.5grs below max. Best with R25 is 0.325", 3522fps, off 0.02"
See no reason to burn out the barrel with a lot of testing. ES and sd are 09 and 05 for MRP and are up to 70 and 33 for R25. Brass is easy to form, both Win and Rem. These loads are with brass that has been weight sorted, uniformed primer pockets. Plan to clean up the necks on the next loads, otherwise no changes.
Rifle is a Savage 12 FTR (.308 barrel replaced with Krieger 30" 1-8 twist).
I haven't seen previous data using MRP but it seems to be the best in my rifle.
Would appreciate any comments from other .22-6mmRem shooters.
See no reason to burn out the barrel with a lot of testing. ES and sd are 09 and 05 for MRP and are up to 70 and 33 for R25. Brass is easy to form, both Win and Rem. These loads are with brass that has been weight sorted, uniformed primer pockets. Plan to clean up the necks on the next loads, otherwise no changes.
Rifle is a Savage 12 FTR (.308 barrel replaced with Krieger 30" 1-8 twist).
I haven't seen previous data using MRP but it seems to be the best in my rifle.
Would appreciate any comments from other .22-6mmRem shooters.
wboggs
Gold $$ Contributor
It will easily top 3600, since I am 1 1/2grs below max with the MRP but don't see any reason to exceed 3550 or so with the exceptional accuracy I am getting without any case head expansion. Note this is with the standard 6mm Rem case. The MRP is the big surprise to me. I've used it in some other rounds and thought I'd see what it would do. Plan to shoot as slowly as possible and keep load workup to a minimum. My buddy has a bore scope so we will follow barrel erosion carefully.
Hope to shoot at 600 and 1000 in the next month or so before it becomes too hot down here.
Appreciate your interest. May even try it on a deer or two in the Fall.
Hope to shoot at 600 and 1000 in the next month or so before it becomes too hot down here.
Appreciate your interest. May even try it on a deer or two in the Fall.
I am very happy with the 22-6mm dies I got from Hornady. Mine is not the improved version, but when new it was as accurate as my PPCs. It shot 3-shot groups in the 3s and 5-shot groups in the 4s at 300 yards. Barrel is a Brux 10-twist shooting 70-grain VLDs at 3644 FPS and using Winchester brass with Federal Match primers and H4831. You can load it up over 3700 FPS, but the accuracy drops off some.
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