22-250ai twist?

[jwink]

My .22-250AI loves the 75 gr. A-max, I have 1-8 Kreiger, HV

 

[markT]

May I request seeing the shooting bench and trailer? Looks like a old wheel of some sort.
AND fantastic shooting by your son. Well done sir.

 

[284winner]

I'm putting together a rifle for my youngest to start shooting a little longer range. I picked up a 1-8 from Krieger earlier this summer. I already have dies from the 22-250ai that I built my older some for his first barrel. I snagged a reamer from here. Also stumbled upon some 90vlds. I had originally planned on him shooting the 80vlds like I use in the 223ai but the 90s would help with the hit percentage I figure.

Now to the question. How many on here have been able to get the 90s to shoot in a 1-8 out of something like a 22-250ai? Should I get a 1-7 and risk blowing them up at these speeds?

The 8 twist in the screamer cartridges stabilize fine. Mine shoots them good. You'd have success in a standard 22-250 but speeds would need to be around 3200. It's pretty easy getting that with the Ackley. You got the right barrel for 75/80s for sure but it works well for the 90s also. Mine shoots the 50-90s very well.

 

[284winner]

That's odd. I've never had a problem getting 80s to stabilize in a 8 twist at 223 speeds.

8 twist 223 barrels will stabilize the 75/80s. I have a 9 that is right on the edge of stabilizing the 75s. Just can't quite do it.

 

[Geno C]

The 8 twist in the screamer cartridges stabilize fine. Mine shoots them good. You'd have success in a standard 22-250 but speeds would need to be around 3200. It's pretty easy getting that with the Ackley. You got the right barrel for 75/80s for sure but it works well for the 90s also. Mine shoots the 50-90s very well.

This one won’t stabilize 90s

 

[Hohn]

I had a .22-250 with a 8” twist Brux. It would not shoot the 90’s...grouped like a shotgun. I could be wrong but I doubt the extra speed of the AI will cure the lack of stability from not enough twist.

Speed is far less useful as a stability lever. It takes a HUGE gain in speed to try to offset a tiny change in twist. Especially when you're talking twist rates that are already pretty fast (< 8).

Fast 22s are ideally right around a 7 if you want to shoot up to 90s. Certainly no faster twist unless you like exploding bullets.

You get to a point where the tradeoff of BC and speed vs blow up tendency requires you to jump to another caliber. Given similar powder capacities, the recoil difference between a 90smk and 108 ELD in 6mm isn't substantial. Stepping up to the 6mm gets you a more versatile caliber (hunting/target/varminting) and a bit longer barrel life too.

 

[284winner]

This one won’t stabilize 90s

Sorry to hear that. What velocities are you moving the 90s at and what elevation are you shooting at ?

 

[284winner]

Speed is far less useful as a stability lever. It takes a HUGE gain in speed to try to offset a tiny change in twist. Especially when you're talking twist rates that are already pretty fast (< 8).

Fast 22s are ideally right around a 7 if you want to shoot up to 90s. Certainly no faster twist unless you like exploding bullets.

You get to a point where the tradeoff of BC and speed vs blow up tendency requires you to jump to another caliber. Given similar powder capacities, the recoil difference between a 90smk and 108 ELD in 6mm isn't substantial. Stepping up to the 6mm gets you a more versatile caliber (hunting/target/varminting) and a bit longer barrel life too.

Elevation is a much better way to get stabilization from bullets that otherwise won't stabilize. If your using the rifle in elevation but live around sea level, it's a tough decision. I hunt in Wyoming and live in Michigan. I can get my 9 twist 243 to shoot great with 105s out there but here they tumble. I need to shoot the 95 HVLDs here in my home state.

 

[Hohn]

Agreed, but it's hard to spec elevation on a new barrel order.

 

[284winner]

Agreed, but it's hard to spec elevation on a new barrel order.

True not recommending that approach but it can gain ground on stabilizing a bit heavier bullet in high country.

 

[Geno C]

Sorry to hear that. What velocities are you moving the 90s at and what elevation are you shooting at ?

My DA here most of the time we shoot in the fall through spring is <-600

I pushed them as hard as the brass would allow. Never checked for speed since they didn’t stabilize

 

[284winner]

My DA here most of the time we shoot in the fall through spring is <-600

I pushed them as hard as the brass would allow. Never checked for speed since they didn’t stabilize

My barrel is a 30" Shilen. The 90s stabilize at 1000' here where I shoot. I run them around 3300.

 

[Geno C]

There are plenty of days that I’m shooting at <-2000

 

[284winner]

There are plenty of days that I’m shooting at <-2000

Still no luck ? I've shot in some elevation in Ohio and had luck with 75 grain shooting well in my 223. Here in Mi, just can't get them to shoot. I use the 75 Amax in Ohio occasionally on ground hogs for my mid range rig. Shoots good out to 600. Provided the elevation is around 1500-2000. My 22-250 AI wasn't built for the 90s. I built it for the 80s. Just happened by luck to shoot the 90s pretty good. I won't use them but had to see if they would shoot.

 

[Geno C]

Still no luck ? I've shot in some elevation in Ohio and had luck with 75 grain shooting well in my 223. Here in Mi, just can't get them to shoot. I use the 75 Amax in Ohio occasionally on ground hogs for my mid range rig. Shoots good out to 600. Provided the elevation is around 1500-2000. My 22-250 AI wasn't built for the 90s. I built it for the 80s. Just happened by luck to shoot the 90s pretty good. I won't use them but had to see if they would shoot.

Maybe you’re not catching it.

Less than negative 2000 feet.

 

[284winner]

Maybe you’re not catching it.

Less than negative 2000 feet.

Yep misunderstood.

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

I would not give that young man anything more than a 223. Have you fired a 22-250. It's got a fairly good kick to it.

 

[Geno C]

I would not give that young man anything more than a 223. Have you fired a 22-250. It's got a fairly good kick to it.

Have you seen the videos from the first page?

 

[Hohn]

This one won’t stabilize 90s

You can't realistically push a 90gr fast enough to stabilize in an 8 twist. At 3500fps, the Sg is only 1.13 with a 90 VLD. THat's not good enough. Even at 4500fps, the Sg is only 1.23.

A 7.5 twist is realistically the slowest you can go that will have even a chance to stabilize a 90. Even still, it's only 1.29 Sg at 3500fps. IMO, a full 7 twist is in order if you want to run 88/90 class bullets.

The question is-- do you need to be able to run a 90? To get that last little bit of BC, you're giving up a lot in terms of having to go faster on twist and longer freebore and such.

I think an 8 twist and a 75/80 are where you want to be. You can drop down and still run the lighter 6x grain class bullets at blazing speed and have good accuracy. You're not twisting so fast that you need to worry about blow ups.


It's important to remember that the reason the absurdly high SD bullets in .223 (90+) exist is because the .223 rem has a limited powder capacity so you have to BC your way to lower windage.

Once you've eliminated the primary limitation (powder capacity), you can drop down to the 75-80 grain range and get decent BC while having fast speed that shoots flat.

For what it's worth, the 75 ELD-m has one of the best form factors of ANY .22 cal bullet (FF being BC relative to weight). So you can push it faster than something heavier of comparable BC.