219 Donaldson Wasp trim to length and maximum case length?

[1911nut]

Hello,
I'm new to the forum and need some help.
I recently acquired a Taylor and Robbins bench gun in 219 Wasp. It's a really cool gun made in the 1960's. It's built on a sleeved Mauser action, set triggers and has a 20X Unertl. The gun and scope weighs in at 25 lbs. The barrel is 31 inches long and 1.25" in diameter. It's as much a work of art as a tight shooting rifle. I've only shot two, 100 yd groups with it; one of them .237"

Based on the fired cases the chamber doesn't quite match any of the so-called "Standard" Donaldson Wasps , Hornady's, Sierra's or the drawing in the Twenty-two caliber varmint rifles book by Landis (excellent read on the evolution of varmint cartridges by the way).

The brass I got with the gun is formed from 219 Zipper brass and their lengths measure 1.705-1.711". Using the Sinclair chamber length gage insert I get a chamber length of 1.726".

I want to know what the maximum case length and trim-to length should be.

Thanks
ps. good forum, lots of info and experienced shooters.

 

[dkhunt14]

I believe you will have to get a Sinclair chamber gauge and measure. It was a custom reamer and can vary. Matt

 

[1911nut]

Hello,
I'm new to the forum and need some help.
I recently acquired a Taylor and Robbins bench gun in 219 Wasp. It's a really cool gun made in the 1960's. It's built on a sleeved Mauser action, set triggers and has a 20X Unertl. The gun and scope weighs in at 25 lbs. The barrel is 31 inches long and 1.25" in diameter. It's as much a work of art as a tight shooting rifle. I've only shot two, 100 yd groups with it; one of them .237"

Based on the fired cases the chamber doesn't quite match any of the so-called "Standard" Donaldson Wasps , Hornady's, Sierra's or the drawing in the Twenty-two caliber varmint rifles book by Landis (excellent read on the evolution of varmint cartridges by the way).

The brass I got with the gun is formed from 219 Zipper brass and their lengths measure 1.705-1.711". Using the Sinclair chamber length gage insert I get a chamber length of 1.726".

I want to know what the maximum case length and trim-to length should be.

Thanks
ps. good forum, lots of info and experienced shooters.

Dkhunt14, I did measure the total chamber length as I posted: "Using the Sinclair chamber length gage insert I get a chamber length of 1.726".

I have to believe using a case length greater than 1.726" could cause higher than desired pressures, but I don't know if there's an optimal length shorter than the maximum I measured.

 

[dkhunt14]

Wow I didn't see that in your thread. I always trim .010 under max. Matt

 

[LHSmith]

The only problem with having case necks too short is it gives a larger gap where the carbon ring forms in the neck/throat area. Clean this area regularly and a carbon ring will never form.

 

[Brians356]

Hello,
The brass I got with the gun is formed from 219 Zipper brass and their lengths measure 1.705-1.711". Using the Sinclair chamber length gage insert I get a chamber length of 1.726".

I want to know what the maximum case length and trim-to length should be.

Since your longest case is still .015" short of the chamber's end, you have little to worry about since you will likely wear out the brass before any grow too long, but I would trim them all to the the shortest example's 1.705" and never look back.

 

[1911nut]

Since your longest case is still .015" short of the chamber's end, you have little to worry about since you will likely wear out the brass before any grow too long, but I would trim them all to the the shortest example's 1.705" and never look back.

Thanks to all that replied. I'll just keep the cases the same length and the carbon out of the neck area.

 

[Tommie]

I have no advice for you, but kudos on such a cool rifle! How about posting some photos??

 

[1911nut]

I have no advice for you, but kudos on such a cool rifle! How about posting some photos??

I'll try to get some pics

 

[dedogs]

1911nut, There were two versions of the Donaldson wasp, a "long" and a "short" version. I believe you may have the short version. Could you measure from the very bottom of the case to the body shoulder junction and report back? I can help you with loads also if needed but I will need to know what bullets you are using and what twist barrel. The older twist rates used for this cartridge varied from 14 to 16. Harvey felt the 16 worked best with 40g Sisk bullets. YMMV Regards, dedogs PS GOOD SCORE!!

 

[1911nut]

1911nut, There were two versions of the Donaldson wasp, a "long" and a "short" version. I believe you may have the short version. Could you measure from the very bottom of the case to the body shoulder junction and report back? I can help you with loads also if needed but I will need to know what bullets you are using and what twist barrel. The older twist rates used for this cartridge varied from 14 to 16. Harvey felt the 16 worked best with 40g Sisk bullets. YMMV Regards, dedogs PS GOOD SCORE!!

dedogs, from the bottom of case to the body-shoulder junction is 1.290" on a fired case.
The overall length is 1.76". My cases differ from other Wasps in the diameter at the shoulder/body, mine is .401" which is 4 to 5 thousandths smaller than other published versions. That made a challenge to find brass, I was lucky in that Jack Harrison who advertises on GB, formed me some excellent brass including 50 from Federal 30 American = small primer.

I have Remington 52g benchrest bullets, Sierra and Berger 52g match bullets. I would appreciate any load data you have.

I'll have to determine the twist -

 

[dedogs]

1911nut, Your case most closely matches the dimensions of the "latest" version of the .219 Wasp provided by C.S. Landis in his book "Twenty-two Caliber Varmint Rifles" on pg. 215 and again on pg. 224. ( I believe you stated that you have a copy). As far as loads go you should be fine with loads published in Landis' book HOWEVER you should be sure to follow the caveats laid down on page 234 with regards to barrel twist, throating, bullet and chamber diameter, and weather or not you have a tight chamber. Based on what I can tell from here you should be good with a trim length about 1.719 but I would measure that chamber 3 or four times with your Sinclair gauge to verify it's length. 3031 seemed to be the favorite powder back then. Whose dies are/will you be using? Since your fired brass does not quite match up with any drawing I have, I suspect you may have to get a custom die made. Treasure those .30 American cases as they are very hard to find these days. I have never been able to obtain any so I can't say the small primer pocket helps with accuracy but given the history of SPPs in other benchrest cartridges it probably does. Hope this helps. dedogs PS Feel free to PM me if you have other questions/ thoughts.

 

[1911nut]

1911nut, Your case most closely matches the dimensions of the "latest" version of the .219 Wasp provided by C.S. Landis in his book "Twenty-two Caliber Varmint Rifles" on pg. 215 and again on pg. 224. ( I believe you stated that you have a copy). As far as loads go you should be fine with loads published in Landis' book HOWEVER you should be sure to follow the caveats laid down on page 234 with regards to barrel twist, throating, bullet and chamber diameter, and weather or not you have a tight chamber. Based on what I can tell from here you should be good with a trim length about 1.719 but I would measure that chamber 3 or four times with your Sinclair gauge to verify it's length. 3031 seemed to be the favorite powder back then. Whose dies are/will you be using? Since your fired brass does not quite match up with any drawing I have, I suspect you may have to get a custom die made. Treasure those .30 American cases as they are very hard to find these days. I have never been able to obtain any so I can't say the small primer pocket helps with accuracy but given the history of SPPs in other benchrest cartridges it probably does. Hope this helps. dedogs PS Feel free to PM me if you have other questions/ thoughts.

I have a Wilson Neck size die and bullet seating die.

I'm planning to get a custom sizing die - right now I'm thinking about a Redding bushing FL size die but may ask the question about custom dies on this forum.