.20VT a good choice for coyotes?

[Goofycat]

I own a .20 VarTarg by Cooper and have been shooting 32-grain VMax bullets for ground squirrels. I would like to consider using this same rifle for coyotes, but have concerns about whether or not moving up to 39 or 40-grain bullets would be worth while. Is that extra 7 or 8 grains in bullet weight really any more effective for coyotes than would be the 32-grainers, or.....is neither bullet worth considering for coyote use (I also have .222 and .22-250 rifles, but they are heavier rifles, and I like the lighter weight of the .20VT).

Nosler now makes both weights in their Ballistic-tip Varminter bullets that tout the bullet as being resistant to falling apart at the higher velocities produced by the .204 bullets. Other than that, I have no idea about the feasibility of going to the 39-40 grain bullets for the VT, and don't know if I should just scrap the idea entirely about using the .20 VT for coyotes. I don't plan on saving the pelts and usually don't shoot beyond 250-300 yards. Any input would be appreciated.

 

[Greg Duerr]

Barry

I shoot a .19 Badger which is similar to the .20VT but a bit smaller ....I shoot a 32gr bullet at about 3675 and have no problem with coyotes out to 250 yards. With the smaller cases like we shoot its still all about bullet placement. I could also go up to a 40gr or 44gr. but since the 32 shoots great why change. .291
I use to use a .222 with a 40gr at about the same velocity as my .19 and killed coyotes with out any problems.
Just go out and try it.................a 32gr BT right in the boiler room and I think that will answer your questions.

 

[jonbearman]

Call noslers tech line and ask the question directly because here you will get a myriad of good answers that may confuse the situation.I am not saying anything bad about our forum just that it gets a little technical and can lead to some confusion.From what I have read about the 20vt ,it is plenty healthy enough to dispatch most varmints including fox and coy dogs.I would limit your range until you talk to the bullet manufacturer. They will know the answers.There are a great bunch of guys who are ballistically way ahead of us. One of them will chime in soon. I usually call every bullet maker and get his story and go to the forum for real use application.These guys on here are great and the best help there is on the planet.

 

[jonbearman]

Good call Greg and good advice and straightforward.

 

[kjcpoint]

Depends on how you hunt coyotes? If you plan on calling them the ballistic tip bullets are ok. If you track them like we do, any ballistic tip is not a good choice. I shot 2 yotes early in the winter with a 50gr nosler ballistic tip (22-250), as this was my prairie dog load. Both dogs had there guts dragging in the snow and still went for a mile and a half.
After that, I went to a 50 grain hornady spire point, since my hunting buddies have been killing coyotes will that bullet for years. Sierra makes a similar bullet, not sure what its called. This bullet stops them in there tracks and leaves minimal pelt damage.
As Jon said earlier this is real use application. Give the sp bullet a try, you will not be disappointed.

Kyle

 

[Goofycat]

I always still-hunt: I scout first, then pick a spot with rocks or a tree, bush, etc. to help in the hiding process, then I set up a FoxPro caller about 50 yards away. I had been using a 13-lb (including scope) 22-250 rifle (no bipod) with much success, but this rifle is heavier than the .20VT, and I felt that the .20VT might be easier on my wimpy back.

The reason I even brought up the subject was that I didn't want to take the VT on a hunt, then find that it wouldn't be particularly effective due to lack of penetration, bullet expansion, etc. I have no problem placing shots (if the animal will stand still for a second) because I am a bench-rest shooter at heart. I don't use semi-auto rilfes....just single-shot. But....I didn't want to drag the VT along, know that the shot was well-placed, then have to track a wounded animal because I chose the wrong caliber. I'll call Nosler to get their take.

 

[coyoteklr]

i'm just an old fart that has hunted coyotes for quit some time.....
i've killed them with a 22 mag at a 100..... used to have a 222 over 20 gauge that i killed them..... 22-250 with 50 grain v-max ... 220 swift AI with 40 grain v-max....
the point is as one of the previous poster so elequently put it SHOT PLACEMENT...
probably everyone is tired of me saying that but it is paramount....
you can take your gun and shoot coyotes and kill them.....
i'm not trying to step on anyones tail but if you have guts hanging out of a running coyote obviously you didn't get your shot where you wanted....with a 22-250 it wasn't the bullet problem.... and if the guts are hanging out the coyote will die shortly and the pelt is no good so why spend all the time tracking..... if you make a gut shot on deer, guts may hang out but you still have meat to eat and then the tracking begins.....
if anyone starts on me about humane killing of coyotes.... first they are not human.. second stick around a sheep operation and see what coyotes do to young ewes that are caught out trying to lamb... i have seen them with their guts hanging out...or young calves with their nose and half their face eaten off..

 

[kjcpoint]

The coyotes in South Dakota, believe it or not have heavy coats in the winter. Thats the reason why vmax or other ballistic tip bullets are not the best choice. They create surface damage with no penetration.
Second, this is farm country with section roads every mile. I have seen several times on a set to call, the yotes will appear at the road but rarely cross that road during daylight hours. During the full moon, calling them works a bit better. But why stay out all night when you can pick up there tracks in the morning? Tracks going into a section but not leaving that section, guess what, that coyote is in that section. Thats why we spend all that time tracking.
Every coyote was kept this winter with the exception of 2 that had mange. Each one is skinned, stretched, and bullet holes sown. Yes, even the few shot with ballistic tips.


Kyle

 

[kjcpoint]

http://thumbp11-ne1.thumb.mail.yahoo.com/tn?sid=29273397752570219&mid=ACGliGIAACLbTazwPgQep3qPCpY&midoffset=1_365879&partid=1&f=1128&fid=Inboxwe

Thats why we track instead of call.

 

[Goofycat]

i'm just an old fart that has hunted coyotes for quit some time.....
i've killed them with a 22 mag at a 100..... used to have a 222 over 20 gauge that i killed them..... 22-250 with 50 grain v-max ... 220 swift AI with 40 grain v-max....
the point is as one of the previous poster so elequently put it SHOT PLACEMENT...
probably everyone is tired of me saying that but it is paramount....
you can take your gun and shoot coyotes and kill them.....
i'm not trying to step on anyones tail but if you have guts hanging out of a running coyote obviously you didn't get your shot where you wanted....with a 22-250 it wasn't the bullet problem.... and if the guts are hanging out the coyote will die shortly and the pelt is no good so why spend all the time tracking..... if you make a gut shot on deer, guts may hang out but you still have meat to eat and then the tracking begins.....
if anyone starts on me about humane killing of coyotes.... first they are not human.. second stick around a sheep operation and see what coyotes do to young ewes that are caught out trying to lamb... i have seen them with their guts hanging out...or young calves with their nose and half their face eaten off..

Good post, and I definitely agree. I was trained to use a single shot and am comfortable with that type of rifle. I wait until they stop....and it's all over.....provided they are within range and there is not a huge amount of wind. Most of the time they are relatively close, however, and shot placement has never been much of a problem. I shoot in country that borders relatively flat country with sheep and cattle (northeast California). The sheep ranchers have no problem with my hunting on or near their land.

 

[walker2713]

You might take a good look at the Berger 35gr bullet with the VT.....

 

[coyoteklr]

The coyotes in South Dakota, believe it or not have heavy coats in the winter. Thats the reason why vmax or other ballistic tip bullets are not the best choice. They create surface damage with no penetration.
Second, this is farm country with section roads every mile. I have seen several times on a set to call, the yotes will appear at the road but rarely cross that road during daylight hours. During the full moon, calling them works a bit better. But why stay out all night when you can pick up there tracks in the morning? Tracks going into a section but not leaving that section, guess what, that coyote is in that section. Thats why we spend all that time tracking.
Every coyote was kept this winter with the exception of 2 that had mange. Each one is skinned, stretched, and bullet holes sown. Yes, even the few shot with ballistic tips.


Kyle

I don't think your pelts in sd are any heavier than Montana.......and 40 grain to 55 grain v-max and 55 gr. nbt kill them in their tracks....i've only been trapping and shooting coyotes for over 50 years, some of those as a living...and yeah i know a little something about sewing hides..if you haven't discovered it yet it is easier to make the hole into an elipse or football shape before you sew it up and it will almost disapear on the outside even the big ragged holes...I also tell my fur buyer which ones have been sewn so there is no coverup and he has been giving me top prices for all my furs and is glad to buy my furs every year for a long time. course i don't know everything but it ain't my first rodeo....one other point .... you have finiky yotes in sd because we have about the same set up in montana for mile sections in alot of places and they cross the road to see what's on the other side in the day time,,,,,,, you might want to get ahold of a fellow in sd ..,., dave tatum he has called in and shot a couple of yotes,,, he also has a guiding out fit with another young fellow,,, not sure of the exact location,,,,and he can shootem dead on the run and out there aways....... one of the better shots with a 22-250 that i have come across......come to think of it there is another fellow in sd that calls yotes that you might look up and find out his secrets of calling he uses a 243AI his name is shawn heyden,.....he's shot a couple of them..

 

[coyoteklr]

Goofycat......
i appologized for hi-jacking your thread to rant.......

 

[Larryh128]

A young friend of mine uses a 17 HMR & kills about 30 a winter with no issues SOOO I'm thinking your 20 will work.

 

[kjcpoint]

We brought 203 pelts to the fur buyer a month ago?
The 22 250 with a 50 or 55 gr spire point is my choice. The op stated that he has a 22 250 and that would be a good choice.

coyoteklr,
Thanks for the names of the fellas who call them in SoDak. Until I am no longer able to get around on snow shoes I have no plans on calling. And I can assure your 50 plus years experience that these coyotes rarely will cross the road until you get on there track. And besides I question your experience due to the fact that you stated earlier that gut shot coyote pelts are no good anyway?

Kyle

 

[coyoteklr]

it reminds me of my uncle when someone doesn't want to learn new ideas or ways of doing something different, whether they use them or not.."by dang we been doing it this way for 20 years theres no need to change" i believe the 0p asked the question if his or hers 20 vt would take coyotes....i know it will.... it was stated that there were 2 other guns available, but both were heavy and didn't want to pack them one a 22-250....i don't know where youve been.... there is an abundance of fur and the market is really soft..i don't care what the high and low was .... what was your average for 200..... for your gut shot coyotes..... all skinned, washed ,sewed, fleshed, put on a strecher, dried and combed, sorted.....what 20 bucks ...whooo hooo......did he know they had big holes in them..i'm betting not ......i'm guessing they were on the bottom of the pile,,,,.. you may have got 45 for your big pale number ones.....who's your fur buyer if you got more than that i want to sell to him...did you do most of the work.....i really could care less what your opinion of my experience is....i have seen what you know about coyote behavior and bullet penetration and i can write it on the edge of a match book cover.......i am sorry that your ego was deflated by my comments.......i wish you and your partners well in your endevour.....

 

[kjcpoint]

In fact my ego is fine. I work with guys just like you. You read a book once and now your a expert. We got 30 across the board. He has been buying from us for years. no secrets.
You can slam our way hunting all you want. It works and maybe you should open up and give it a try. Then your match book cover 1st edition will be complete.
As long as your at it, blow us some more of that hot air to SoDak so I can get out and work up a load for prairie dogs. hey a vmax.

take care,
Kyle

 

[Goofycat]

Goofycat......
i appologized for hi-jacking your thread to rant.......

No apology necessary, CK. I enjoyed reading your post.

 

[Goofycat]

You might take a good look at the Berger 35gr bullet with the VT.....

Thanks, Walker. Since this bullet is only a few grains heavier than the 32-grainers I now have loaded, I don't think there would be any problem with stabilization in flight. I forget what my barrel twist rate is, but I would guess that 40-grainers are at the outer limits. My problem is that I don't know anyone else who has a .20VT and I rely on you guys to guide me. 8)

 

[coyoteklr]

kjcpoint

30 across the board..... i rest my case..... as i stated before i grade my skins before i take them to a buyer.... that way i know what i have and get 45 or 50 for a big pale number one not just an average....we have a little bigger and paler coyote along the border high line up here than further south.....

when you read with anger you don't hear the words..... not once did i slam your way of hunting..I questioned your knowledge about coyote behavior and shot placement of highly frangable bullets
. when i was younger i used to snowshoe after cats but not a coyote.... and we usually don't have that much snow at one time that sticks on the ground .... it usually ends up in the coulee's and ditches....i take my hat off to you for spot and stalk on coyotes... by the time i spotted them they were a quarter of a mile away and doing mach 95.....now mule deer is a different story... i'm good at it and like it......
as far as getting things out of books.... of course i read i like it ..you should try it.. but the tid-bit about cutting an oval before sewing and then using a stitch similar to a baseball stitch so your hole disappears on the outside so you don't have the puckering effect and using and putting 4 or 5 drops of dawn and a fourth of a cup of fabric softner in your wash water are just a couple of things you won't find in a book...after taking them off the boards and hold the head and grab the base of the tail and pop it the hair stands up straighter than 3 new second louies....if all i knew about was what i read out of a book ... do you think i would know about those things

you didn't answer the question of wheather or not you did some of the work... of skinning, washing, fleshing, sewing, putting on stretchers, combing and grading.

you mentioned hot air....the reason it is so windy here in Montana is that washington blows and south dakota sucks.....no offence intended that is a 100 year old montana joke...

as far as reading books and knowing all...i don't ....the things i still don't know about shooting and hunting would fill volumes.....but that don't mean i haven't been around the block...

I hope you find a way to deal with your anger issues, because it is evident by what you said about work you were angry before you started this thread...
nope i ain't a psychologist either, but in a position where i didn't know how to deal with my anger, kept it bottled up until it would blow and then dumped it on whomever was close....found a lady that tought me how deal with it .... yup i still get angry, but i don't dump it on someone else..... and believe me nobody makes you angry.... that is totally your decision to be so....