.204 ruger vs. .223rem vs. .22-250rem

[K0na_stinky]

Hey every one I'm new to shooting and I'm looking for an accurate gun for target shooting and starting to try to shoot further. I want to learn about bullet drop and wind drift. Also I would like to start handloading.

So far I have a Savage 93R17 BRJ .17 HMR. Its a ton of fun. Ive even shot a 8"x12" steel plate at 300 yards. I found a ballistic calculator online and used that to find out its about 15MOA drop from my zero at 100 yards.

Anyways I'm looking at a Savage model 12 LRPV Dual Port. I'm not sure what caliber I should get.

What are your opinions?

Hows the barrel life with all 3? How do they shoot out to 500 yards or further? Whats the best to start handloading with?

I would love any input.

Thanks.

 

[SS427]

No one will ever agree between those three.

Here are some observations from someone that has owned two of the three and used the other:

.204 and .223 has less recoil than a .22-250, so in certain conditions you can see your hits
A vital component to accuracy is brass....Lapua is the best and they don't make it for the .204
Speed kills barrels, so barrel life would be better w/ the .223
Wind drift is a big factor, and the .204 and .22-250 probably have a slight advantage over the .223
At 500 yards all three will be a compromise, so you better be able to read the wind
.223 factory ammo is easy to find and can be found cheaper than the other two
I've found .223 is easy to find a good load...my .22-250 is picky
Better variety of .224 caliber bullets over .204

I think one thing most everyone on THIS site would agree to is the 6mmBR would be a better choice than any of those three. Savage makes a 6BR w/ a 12 twist that would shoot lighter varmint bullets very well.

 

[Kenny474]

If you want to learn to shoot long and also start to handload, forget your first three choices. They will never keep up with a 6mm or 6.5mm at anything over 500yds. The bigger rounds just carry more bullet weight and shoot bullets with much higher BC. The .223 lacks the boiler room for the new heavy VLD's in my opinion, and it needs to be loaded to excessive pressure in a long barrel with a super fast twist to get the velocity needed. And from what I have heard, it's not the easiest route for a beginner. You can always use lighter bullets, but that again will just put you at a disadvantage compared to the bigger rounds.

The 22-250 is a bit of a barrel burner, and the 1-12 twist is far from ideal for the heavier bullets, which is what you want if you plan to shoot long. The .204, while accurate, also lacks the ability to throw heavy bullets. The .223 has a bit better twist rate at 1-9, but it still limits you to bullets of about 65 grains, maybe 70. While the 80 and 90gr bullets, which have the high BC and weight you need for the long game, will still be out of reach for the 1-9 twist.

I think a far better choice to learn to shoot at long range would be one of the Target Rifle series in 6mmBR with a 1-8 twist, either the Model 12 Bench Rest or the Model 12 F-Class. They both have nice wide flat fore-ends made to ride the bag in a front rest, and have an ideal twist rate for the heavy VLD's that will really buck the wind as the distance starts to stretch. The 6BR is also a very easy round to load for, and top notch components are easily available. It will easily out-shoot any of your other choices, especially at longer range. It also has the capability to shoot accurately out to 1000yds in good conditions, something the others will struggle with.
If you really like the LRPV rifles, the Left Port has the option of a 6BR with a 1-8 twist as well.

The 6BR is a much better choice for long range shooting and is very easy to load for. It's easy on barrels, if you take care of it and don't abuse it or clean it to death it could last 3000-4000 rounds, about 2 times longer than a 22-250, and be more accurate in the process. It's one of the best rounds going for shooting out to 600yds, and would be a great choice for a beginner as it's very easy to tune. I just don't think there is a better choice to be had anywhere in any rifle for a beginner learning to shoot long and reload as well.

Another good choice would be the .308 Winchester. It has good factory ammo available, and has plenty of power to reach out accurately. It will cost a bit more to load for, and also will have more recoil as well. Those are things you need to consider. But the barrel will last almost forever, as some have gone to 5000 rounds still shooting well.

 

[K0na_stinky]

Thanks for all the feedback.

I've been reading up on the 6mmbr and it seems to be good. Lots of people like it. The only thing holding me back is the fact that you can't get factory ammo for it so I'm stuck reloading. So if I can't get the hang of reloading I'm stuck with a gun I can't shoot. Maybe I'll look into a .308 or just stick with the .223 and not have high hopes for over 500 yards. I'm still young so I have lots of years to get bigger rifles.

Thanks again.

 

[Kenny474]

Lapua makes 6BR ammo, and several companies will load custom ammo for you.

Anyway, reloading isn't nearly as difficult as it seems. Most all who try it are soon loading good ammo.

 

[SS427]

If you are serious about some of the goals you talk about in your first post, you are going to have to learn to reload. You might be able to do it with factory ammo, but I wouldn't make a serious investment in an accurate gun and then hope someone makes the perfectly tuned ammo it takes to achieve tiny groups.

Reloading is pretty easy. You just have to be able to follow directions and pay attention to details. I find reloading very easy. Shooting is the real challenge.

 

[Nodak7mm]

Kona,
I first had a 22/250, decided I need something that shot cooler and cheaper, bought a .223. Yrs later I was in the mood to try something small again after messing with .17 centerfires, bought a 204. Love em all and they all have their place.
But you cant beat the .223 for economical fun shooting.
Nodak

 

[Waskawood]

I agree that you should get into reloading. It is NOT hard to learn and you have all the help you need right here on this board. Not only will reloading give you more accurate ammunition it is just as much fun as shooting!!!! By shooting factory ammo you are missing out on half the fun.

 

[Laurie]

I'd agree with other responses in that 6BR is a better bet than the three cartridges you mention, also that sooner or later you'll have to take up handloading if you want to achieve your objectives.

There is a caveat though in recommending 6BR - that is for general target shooting plus varminting. The fastest growing competition discipline for this kind of rifle is F-Class and there are cartridge choice issues here. 6BR puts you into the 'Open' category and you could be up against custom rifles and more powerful cartridges whose bullets buck the wind better than the Six - 6.5X47L, 6.5-284, .284 Win and then into the short magnums. A lot moreover depends on the distances you might want to shoot over - 6BR will hold its own to 500 and is still competitive at 600 with larger numbers, but starts to suffer in 'difficult' wind conditions here.

The other F-Class discipline is F-TR and that's restricted to .223R and .308W, and is extremely popular, especially as rifles used in shorter range competition (up to 600yd) can be multi-purpose, as in your case, also more affordable. These cartridges offer better barrel lives than many of the alternatives too and certainly anything used in F-Open.

.223 with heavy bullets (75gn and up) is very competitive at 200-600yd against .308W, is easier to shoot off a bi-pod (less recoil) and has lower running costs. What you do need though is a faster rifling twist than the 1-9" that Savage offers with the LRPV dual-port which restricts you to 70gn bullets and only just handles some 75s. The LRPV left port model is available in two versions - 1-7" and 1-9" twist. The faster 7" twist model is tailor made for 80gn match bullets and will handle 90s too at a pinch, is a very competitive 600yd rifle, and can still be used for lots of other things.

Anyway, just something to think about.

Laurie,
York, England

 

[clannagael]

I agree with some other comments about the 6BR. If you're looking at a Savage LRPV, it comes in 6BR from the factory and that would be my first choice.

I also agree that reloading isn't the scary black hole that it's made out to be sometimes. There's reloading, then there's precision reloading for competition. If you're going to work up a load and use it at the range, maybe do some varmint shoots, or hunting then it's pretty straight forward.

Having said that, I have a Savage 12 BVSS in .223. I was in the military and I had to qualify to 600m with the M16A2 using the .223 (5.56 of course) which is to say that it's performance to 600m is well documented. The .223 Rem is a perfectly capable round out to 600 yards, but it's not in the same league as the 6BR, no matter how precise your hand loads are; they're just not engineered the same.

I can shoot MOA to 600 yards all day long with my factory Savage .223. With good hand loads I can shoot 5 inch groups at 600, and tighter at 400 or less. I've entered some competitions with it at my local range against mostly 6BRs and I can say, unequivocally, that it's like entering a stock pickup in a truck&tractor pull. While I've been very happy with the performance of the rifle, I can't beat the 6BRs, even on a good day, with my .223. I shot one braggin' rights match with 11 shooters - 9 had Savages, 5 were LRPVs in 6BR. First and second place in the 600 yard 5-shot group were both 3 inch groups with clover leafs.

To answer your original question thought, I would choose the .223 due to the longevity of the barrel and the practicality.

 

[K0na_stinky]

Well maybe I will have to step up to the plate and get a 6br. Now should I get the model 12 LRPV or a model 12 F class? Will the extra 4" of barrel help me out at all? I sort of have a thing for laminated wood stocks.

Thanks for all the imput guys.

 

[15Tango]

Get a 6BR or better yet a 6XC, if you want a tad better wind performance go with a proven cartridge like the 6.5X47, 6.5 Creedmoor or .284 Win., the 6s will be cheaper to shoot and may give you more shooting time for cost but some can also be barrel burners so choose the 6MM wisely, the XC and BR give good barrel life.

Wayne

 

[Kenny474]

I would personally go for the F-Class. The stock will ride the bags better than the LRPV, and the extra barrel should help a bit with velocity.

I would suggest having the action bedded to the stock, as many others have said it nets a sizable improvement in accuracy in most cases. For the small cost, it's well worth it.

 

[K0na_stinky]

I would personally go for the F-Class. The stock will ride the bags better than the LRPV, and the extra barrel should help a bit with velocity.

I would suggest having the action bedded to the stock, as many others have said it nets a sizable improvement in accuracy in most cases. For the small cost, it's well worth it.

Do the F-class rifles come with a swivel stud for mounting a bi-pod?

 

[Kenny474]

No,the F-Class is made to ride the bag in a front pedestal rest, and a stud wouldn't ride very well.

The FT/R is designed for a bi-pod, but is only chambered in .223 and .308.

I would go with the F-Class and use a rest, as it's much easier to master than a bipod. Most all guys shooting F-Open are using rests anyway, and a bipod will only be a disadvantage should you decide to try F-Class shooting. It's hard to match the accuracy you can achieve with a rest with a bi-pod, as the rest holds the rifle much steadier and will allow it to recoil freely.

 

[K0na_stinky]

No,the F-Class is made to ride the bag in a front pedestal rest, and a stud wouldn't ride very well.

The FT/R is designed for a bi-pod, but is only chambered in .223 and .308.

I would go with the F-Class and use a rest, as it's much easier to master than a bipod. Most all guys shooting F-Open are using rests anyway, and a bipod will only be a disadvantage should you decide to try F-Class shooting. It's hard to match the accuracy you can achieve with a rest with a bi-pod, as the rest holds the rifle much steadier and will allow it to recoil freely.

Shooting off a rest doesn't really appeal to me. I would rather shoot off a bipod laying on the ground.