20 VT or 221 fireball reduced loads propellant options

[SD guy]

Hello: all.

Purpose for the load I am considering is the taking of small game without excessive meat damage. Projectiles up for consideration range from spire point offerings to All copper Hammer offerings. I am hoping to achieve some expansion with a velocity in the neighborhood of 1950 FPS give or take 50 FPS.

Propellants I am considering range from Trailboss, IMR 4198, A5744 & perhaps Bluedot. Again my goal is roughly 1950 FPS in cartridges like the 221 Fireball or the 20 Vartarg. Tell me I am not crazy here. Am I on the right track with propellants I have suggested?
Are there other propellants I should consider. Current example I would like to work with may be the 20 VT pushing a 31 gr Hammer or a 34 gr Dogtown offering.

Thank you for your input in advance.

 

[Oso]

You could use just about any powder. TrailBoss would give best case fill, but no where to be found for some time.

You may need to test bullet expansion (water jugs) to see if get adequate expansion at that low velocity. Add VMax to your bullet selection… at reduced speeds a VMax is no longer a frangible grenade on impact, but rather acts like a soft core lead hunting round that mushrooms nicely.

 

[SD guy]

Happen to have some old stock trail boss in stock. Trouble shows up when attempting to stuff the large donuts in the 20 caliber case neck, stick powder can be bad enough. Thus I am wishing to give the other options more serious consideration. Seems I have seen reports of more promising results when using powders ranging from IMR 4198, Accurate 5744 along with Bluedot & Unique. Don't think I haven unique in my inventory any longer.

I expect that a case fill approaching, at least 60 percent will be advisable for any propellant I am working with, 90 percent may be even better. Though I don't know of any propellant that may get me as low as the velocity I am aiming for, besides the donut's.

Yes I do intend on, testing on water jugs to evaluate what velocity may still be facilitating adequate expansion.

 

[linebaugh]

I have never tried it in your application but I used Alliant Steel powder when trying to get good case fill on subsonic loads. It has a burn rate in the bkue dot, longhshot, 296/110 range. One of the bulkiest powders I could find with that burn rate area.
Bad news is I could not vet SD down with it. You may or may not have the same issues.

N120 may be an option, very close to 4198 and not sure off the top of my head which is a bulkier powder.

Have you considered a heavier bullet IF your twist will support it? 60-65gr flat base soft points of some sort. Depending on intended range you might get by with a heavy bullet pushing the stability factor out to a cpl hundred yards.

 

[SD guy]

In the 20 VT, 45 GR Hornady #22008 cup & core spire point projectile may be pushing about as heavy as the 11 twist may facilitate proper gyroscopic stability. This is up for consideration.

Not at all surprised by the bad news regarding SD. Supposedly SD is one of the big advantages for the 338 ARC over the 300 BLK. Never the less if there is a way around the SD consideration, that would be nice. 338 ARC might be a bit overkill for the application I have in mind Perhaps given that Subsonic would not be a criteria that I am striving for, just possibly this goal has hope.

 

[Oso]

You are shooting a light load to achieve 60% of 20VT’s normal velocity. There is no reason that you need to go crazy searching for powders to make a descent reduced load. If TrailBoss is to difficult to get into small .20 cal neck then might consider extruded stick powder for case fill. Otherwise, your typical 20VT powders should work fine, including most powders used for 223.

You may need to adjust your expectation of precision at these lower velocities.

If you’re looking at Unique then also consider Bullseye, Titegroup, W231. Good Luck!

 

[SD guy]

I would have little trouble accepting .9 MOA for work 100 yards & in as opposed to .4 MOA or better that may be more typical for this cartridge. Thank you!

 

[lb-ft]

Look up data for 2400 powder. There’s some out there for 222 and 221FB. In 222 it’s fantastic in the right application.

 

[SD guy]

Look up data for 2400 powder. There’s some out there for 222 and 221FB. In 222 it’s fantastic in the right application.

Ok I started looking at Alliant 2400 in the context of the 221 fireball pistol data using an 11" barrel. Reloader 7 was listed as well. As things work out, I have Reloader 7 & do not have 2400. Any reason 2400 may be a better option than Reloader 7 or IMR 4198 for that matter?

I dug in to a older 45th edition Lyman load manual 222 Rem data for the purpose of considering cast bullet offerings. Number of loads come up that bracket my velocity goals using propellants like PB powder & 630 P powder for accuracy loads for the 45 gr cast bullet Herco was listed for the 50 grain cast bullet as well as the previous offerings for accuracy loads.

I happen to have Herco & intend to give this a go with 34 & 45 gr projectiles in the 20 VT.

 

[SD guy]

Some propellants behave nicer than others when down loading more than 10 percent. Thus I tend to be somewhat reluctant backing just any propellant down considerably more than 10 percent.

 

[Gabe22BR]

https://www.accuratereloading.com/221rfb.html

221 Remington Fireball

Try this

 

[SD guy]

20 VT, low velocity test started by experimenting with Herco & Clays pushing the 34 gr DogTown. Fill rate may be a bit less than I was hoping for. Otherwise early results are looking very promising IMHO.

Rem 6.5 primers were used to light the load off. Herco was tested at 7 grains, 6 grains & 5 grains. Only tested the Clays at 4.5 grains.

Herco velocity came in at 2430 - 2469 with the seven grain load. Accuracy was pushing MOA with a 4 shot group at 50 yards, on this Windy day - over 20MPH in my face.

Six grain load velocity came in at 2209 to 2242 & looking more like .5 MOA with a 3 shot group.

Velocity of the five grain load was in the range I think I am striving for stretching from 1944 to 1919. This produced a group slightly over .5 MOA

The four point five grain Clays load was in the Velocity Range I was striving for though the group may have left something to be desired at 1.5 MOA'ish with a 4 shot group.

Water jug test to follow along with a few more projectiles.

Expect the pressure is very low on all of these based on observational signs. Barrel heat was near non existent. Optimism is high at this point. Early though.