20 VarTarg neck turning ?

[Mike Montgomery]

I haven't tried it but, why not neck turn 221 Fireball brass before sizing it down to 20 VarTarg? What issues or complications would be expected?
Thanks in advance for any and all responses,
Mike

 

[Larry Koch]

Yes, you can start with 223 or 5.56 cases and go to 221 fireball and then to 20 VarTarg. doesn't take long.

 

[michaeljp65]

221 fireball into a 20VT sizer, load and shoot.

 

[Mike Montgomery]

Clarification,
I have to turn necks for the chamber in my 20VT. I have the neck turning tools to turn them as 22 cal. or 20 cal. I have been turning them as 20 cal. But, what problems would I encounter turning them as 22 cal. and then necking them down to 20 cal.?
Thanks,
Mike

 

[jepp2]

But, what problems would I encounter turning them as 22 cal. and then necking them down to 20 cal.?

When you neck down, the neck thickness variation can increase due to sizing down. My experience says you are better off sizing down first then neck turning.

I reformed some 30-06 into 25-06. First batch I turned as 30-06, the shoulder neck junction moved quite a bit, so the second batch I did after the forming to 25-06 was complete. Turned out better for me.

 

[NorCalMikie]

I haven't tried it but, why not neck turn 221 Fireball brass before sizing it down to 20 VarTarg? What issues or complications would be expected?
Thanks in advance for any and all responses,
Mike

Did that. Necks were all over the place.
"New" necked down to 20 were pretty even.
Cut a chamber to .234 neck and zero free bore.
Don't look back.

 

[Mike Montgomery]

Thanks to everyone that responded.
Mike

 

[JSH]

I got tired of looking for 221 brass, threw my hands up in the air and made my own. I used virgin 222 Starline. I bought a jig on eBay and a mini chop saw from harbor freight, then a body die. All of that along with the new brass I was still in it less than what 221 was bringing AND if I need more it is now no problem.
I did neck turn all of it and back to the shoulder far enough to let the donut roll to the outside.
I have five cases that went to the range with me every time, those five now have 12 firings on them and 6 anneals. So I am satisfied that the several hundred I did should last me a long while.

 

[SeabeeKen]

High Plains Brass used to sell formed 20VT brass made from 5.56. I bought some but never used it. It was advertised as neck turned but I found it borderline in my rifle and neck turned it. Not sure they are still n business though. I use Norma 221 FB thru a 20VT die and FF

 

[SD guy]

I had purchased the High Planes Brass in 221 Fireball, quite a few years back. If I understand correctly they have since sold out.

Back on subject. The necks of the 221 FB brass that I had were not turned & were tighter than I had preferred. So I opted to turn the necks on a few to try. Think I discovered today that it is defiantly possible to turn the necks back too far. After firing a round I found the cased dropped considerably deeper in the shell box than usual. Also the following round would not chamber or come close to chambering.

This was a first for me. As it worked out I ran a nylon brush up & down the bore a couple times. On the 2nd retract stroke the separated neck portion pulled out of the bore with little fuss.

Question arises on how we prevent such issues in the future. Suppose I am looking for suggestions.

Thank you!

 

[Rick300]

I have turned necks while they are still 223. You have to experiment to ge the right thickness af sizing down. Going by memory, I think it was .0118 gave me .0125 final dimension.

 

[SD guy]

Thanks! I'll consider this going forward. Made it out shooting this evening with test loads. Many lost necks were experienced. Despite the lost necks a couple especially accurate nodes were experienced.

Rather embarrassed with my neck turning error. Hope others may learn from my experience.

 

[JSH]

How far in did you go on the shoulder?
Did you anneal?

I went into the shoulder just a bit, I then annealed.
I used virgin 222 brass. I know a LOT of folks have good luck with it, and, I have used it in years past in various wildcats. Seems like I have less issues and problems with virgin.

 

[SD guy]

How far in did you go on the shoulder?
Did you anneal?

I went into the shoulder just a bit, I then annealed.
I used virgin 222 brass. I know a LOT of folks have good luck with it, and, I have used it in years past in various wildcats. Seems like I have less issues and problems with virgin.

Wanted to get more information before offering feed back.

Had turned back to where the shoulder was kissed. Did this twice. One time before fire forming & once after fire forming. After fire forming & 2nd neck turning, I worked through a series of charges in 3 tenths increments. No issues with lost necks until after the 2nd neck turning.

Since, I proceeded to anneal 20 pieces of brass & loaded 10 of these with a warmer charge that was looking promising with the earlier outing. Just used the Harrells powder thrower for this test in a rather quick fashion. Care to guess what the outcome was?

Fired a quick 10 round group tonight with a 19 grain load of 2200 under the 32 gr V-max. This is as hot as I have went thus far. Ten shot group was 1.5" with a flyer. If The flyer was omitted, then the group came in at .72"

Ok, never had any issues with loosing necks or any signs of failure, after annealing. As might be expected the fire forming provided fully formed brass. Brass flow was as good as it gets.

For comparison my loss rate on the non annealed necks of the Lake city brass was in excess of 50 percent. All losses took place in the 2nd firing.

Note: to self, & note to others, annealing can be a worth while process.

 

[JSH]

I made up about 20-25 and put them through the wringer. Shot them with some stiff loads annealed and didn’t t anneal, cracked a neck or two on the ones I didn’t anneal, but never lost a neck as you did. The annealed I quit worrying about around 6-7 firings.