20 VarTarg - 221 Fireball nosler brass vs 223 Rem Lapua Brass

[Tragiq]

Doing a custom build 20 VarTarg bit by bit over the next year or so. Curious whether I should use Lapua 223 Remington brass or Nosler 221 Fireball brass? Obviously the Nosler brass is much easier to convert to 20 VarTarg - I believe I just run it through a full size VarTarg die to neck down and change the shoulder angle from 23° to 30°. I'm curiuos if anyone has thoughts about the quality of nosler brass compared to lapua brass and if anyone has experience converting 223 Lapua brass to 20 VT?

 

[Tommie]

I doubt anyone will say that Nosler brass is equal to Lapua. But what does it matter for your build? Treat the Nosler brass nice. Anneal regularly. It’ll likely be excellent for whatever you plan to do with a Vartarg.

 

[Gabe22BR]

I went 222 Starline- converted to 20
Cheaper, available, no whining when something happens to one of them..

I like my Lapua, hate their thin rims..

 

[SeabeeKen]

I use Norma 221 brass for my VT. I believe Norma makes the nosler brass. I also bought some VT brass from High Plains brass (i think that was the name) which was made from 223.I have yet to use it as I have plenty of the Norma and it shoots well. Norma makes some Lapua brass for Lapua.

 

[L.Sherm]

My guess is if you go the Lapua route you probably want the reamer that is designed for Lapua thats a little bigger at the .200 line to avoid clickers.

 

[JSH]

Unless you spec a reamer, you will have to do something about neck wall thickness. I also used Starline 222 brass.
I myself would not waste Lapua 223 to make 221 parent cases out of.
If your going to make over 100 cases, harbor fright has a mini chop saw. There are 3D printed jigs for chopping brass off. Well worth the money.
I tired of the outrageous price on most all 221 brass.
Believe there are couple of gents making 221/20VT brass here, listed in the classifieds. I prefer to exchange funds and goods with those of similar interest.

 

[searcher]

It depends on how hot you intend to run your loads and how much you shoot. . If you want to get long life from your brass, reduce the load a bit. The Lapua will tend to hold the pockets longer than a lot of brass - but it depends on how much you shoot too. If you are a high-volume shooter and need many hundreds (or thousands) of cases to go on a shoot - using inexpensive brass may be the way to go. Sometimes I take 5,000 - 6,000 rounds on a shoot. In Lapua brass - that would cost me $4,500 +/- for brass. Using Starline or other such new brass drops that to $1,500.00.

While you will get fewer firings, even if you got only 6 firings, that is 36,000 shots! You will have likely toasted your barrel long before you got through the life of the brass - so it is a mute point in my mind. So, I'd look at how many rounds at most you would plan on shooting at one time to help you make that choice with your budget. Some Ground Hog guys might shoot 10-50 shots max in a day. One box of Lapua brass would last them at least 1,500 shots (15 firings for illustration) or an average of 60 hunts.

 

[Just Say Moe]

I would use Nosler 221 or 17FB, or make your own out of LC brass.

 

[TheCZKid]

I've used Lake City brass and done the conversion on at least 2000 cases, and it can be some of the least expensive brass if you can get it surplus, like range brass etc. I've got a 690 for sale on here now, in case you are interested. Necks turned, annealed, matching years.

 

[snert]

I had a Hart barreled BAT SV built in 20 VT. For PD, i my mind, there is nothing better than LC brass. Sure, if I wanted to see if it would shoot in the ones as opposed to the threes, I might...might...buy some Lapua, if it were available and if it were still made.

I shoot both Remington and LC and much prefer the LC converted to 221.

I bought my brass (before CZ kid was doing it) from High Plains or another place online...can't recall. I necked turned every case. I didn't go full on anal...I ran my neck turning tool onto a motorized case holder (yup, a power drill) and smoked my way thru 800.

Now that I own it, and shoot it, I like it. But if I were to do another 20 it would be a straight 20/222 and I would use Starline brass.

 

[Tragiq]

If your going to make over 100 cases, harbor fright has a mini chop saw. There are 3D printed jigs for chopping brass off. Well worth the money.

Thank you all for the feedback. This is strictly going to be a range gun for me and my young son, when he's old enough to shoot. I'd prefer to do Lapua brass if I can. I've watched a youtube video about chopping off the brass and its way beyond my experience as a reloader (i'm fairly new) but I don't mind doing it. Can you tell me more about the 3D printed jig or do you have a link?

Also, off topic but related - I want to make sure the reamer is for 20 VT, and not a 20/221. In other words, 30 degrees intsead of, I believe, 23 degrees. Has anyone had any issues with reamers for this cartridge? I've read that in its earlier iteration the dimensions were different.

 

[TheCZKid]

Here's a reamer finisher drawing from Grizzly for a 20VT. hope this helps with what is the normal shoulder and cartridge dimensions. This is for a .232 neck clearance.


This one is JGS. looks like the neck clearance is .233

The photo below shows (1) Harbor Freight mini-chop-saw. and (2) the 17/221 FB jig you install. Those are normally available on Ebay.

17 or 221 Rem Fireball Cut off Trimming Jig Auto-Ejecting Brass Case Trimmer | eBay

Created to convert.223 Rem (5.56) to 17 Rem Fireball or 221 Rem Fireball cases. DOES NOT include saw, only the jig itself. Compatible with Item #70478 Drill Master MiniCut-Off Saw from Harbor Freight.

www.ebay.com

 

[L.Sherm]

If you want a no turn neck for Lapua brass if you can find it you need a .235 neck and the .377 .200 line dimension to avoid clickers

 

[JSH]

I have my doubts if we see any 221 brass from Lapua in the near future.
I would suggest getting one of the gents on this board to make you some finished brass from virgin of your choice.
Lapua is good brass, no question there. However it doesn’t contain magical powers.
I had some 221 Lapua, 100. I had played with some extras and saw no difference in what I had a bunch of already. Fellow wanted the 221 Lapua brass worse than I did, got 500 star line 223 for it.

Making brass is not a big deal. Chop it, clean burrs off, do a final pass in die and do a final trim and chamfer and neck turn, your done.