.17 remington fireball??

[brian923]

i seen this round shown in a magazine, i believe its the xtreme predator, or somethuing. anyways, i see that they are mass producing rifles forthis round, i guess hopeing it becomes a hit. but, didnt they try it befor. the 17 remington, based on the.223 case??

i have herd that the old 17 rem was a speedy little thing, but it durtied up rifles really fast. like within 10-20 rounds.
how does this new round stack up with the old?

thanks, brian

 

[acloco]

With the 17 Rem, if the reloader just HAD to push everything to 4000, 4100, or 4200 fps, then yes, it will dirty a barrel.

If the reloader picked a clean burning powder and kept the loads just under 4000, the 17 Rem if is a great round.

Have sucessfully taken numerous prairie dogs in the 300-550 yard range.

 

[brian923]

Cartridge Information



Velocity,ft/sec)
Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500

17 fireballâ„¢ 20 ATV 4000 3380 2840 2360 1930 1555
17 Remingtonâ„¢ 20 ATV 4250 3594 3028 2529 2081 1684


Energy,ft-lbs)
Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500

17 fireballâ„¢ 20 ATV 710 507 358 247 165 107
17 Remingtonâ„¢ 20 ATV 802 574 407 284 192 126


Short-Range Trajectory
Cartridge Type Bullet 50 100 150 200 250 300

17 fireballâ„¢ 20 ATV -0.3 0.2 zero -1.1 -3.3 -6.8
17 remingtonâ„¢ 20 ATV -0.4 0.1 zero -0.9 -2.8 -5.9


Long-Range Trajectory
Cartridge Type Bullet 100 150 200 250 300 400 500

17 fireballâ„¢ 20 ATV 1.6 2.0 1.5 zero -2.8 -13.5 -33.8
17 remingtonâ„¢ 20 ATV 1.3 1.7 1.3 zero -2.5 -11.8 -29.2




i just found this info at the official remington website.

it looks to me that the old 17 remington round seems to beat out the new fireball in all the categories listed above. my guess is that the fireball kinda "keeps up" with less of a powder charge. but i think that's the only advantage. what do you guys think??

 

[brian923]

you say that the 17 fireball was made to be a 250 yard round, is it possible to make it go further?? i m guessing reloading with heavyier bullets?
what tpyes of twist are used for the .177 pills???

 

[tuck2]

I used the ballistics program down loaded from huntingnut.com to come up with the following. I entered the 25 Gr Hornady HP bullet with the MV of 3,650 ft/sec. I used a 1.75 inch point blank range which would zero the rifle at 187 Yds. 50 Yds +.03 in, 100 Yds +.80 in, 150 Yds + .71 inch, 200 Yds - .40 inch, 250 Yds -2.67 inchs, 300 Yds - 6.30 inches, 350 Yds -11.59 inches. I plan on using the 17 Fireball for prairie dog shots out to 300 Yds. The data I got on the 20 Gr V-Max with a MV of 3,900 ft/sec using a 1.75 inch point blank range the bullet was 5 inches low at 300 Yds. I have a Remington 700 Limited 17 Fireball rifle w/ Leupold 6-18 X scope. This next week I may go out and shoot the rifle the first time using factory 20 Gr ammo.

 

[brian923]

tuck 2--- let us know how the rifle performs in real life. i have no doubt that it will be flawless, but let us know how you like the feel, and the performance.

gunamonth-- thank you for all you info. it really is going to help alot.

i was looking at this project for an AR-15. the only problem i four-see is a chamber reamer. but... where theres a will... theres a way... right!


thanks guys, brian

 

[tuck2]

After firing eleven factory 20 Gr rounds my next project is to glass bed the action and free float the barrel of the Rem 700 Limited CDL SF 17 Fireball rifle. Has Remington ever made a flawless rifle ???? The forearm is contacting the left side of the barrel and only part of the action behind the recoil lug is contacting the wood stock.

 

[EDCOLLIER]

Hi, Does anyone have the SAAMI spec case dimensions for the 17 Fireball? Or, can you point me in the right direction. Remington and Hodgdon don't list it on their website. Just being close to 17MACH4 doesn't tell me enough. Thanks

 

[rangerruck]

I know a guy that has been shooting the 17 fireball for 20 yrs, cooper has been making rifles for this round for quite a while.
he nandloads his rounds, or has been for many years.
yes, it is all in the powder mix for this round, i believe the tech guys from remington, said, that for such I tiny powder charge, they are getting unbelievable speed, and it is quite clean burning as well.
I do not know what mix my friend uses, but he says he has gotten 4500fps with his, though he could not get that hot a speed as accurate as he liked. He did say that 42 and 4300fps were his normal fps, with fantastic accuracy, with 20 and 25 grn bullets, and he regularly took 300 to 400 yd shots, at coyotes with it.
oh yeah, it is the old 221 fireball necked down, with just a change in shoulder angle, that is all. 40 degrees, I believe.

 

[brian923]

do you think that this round could work in an AR-15 upper setup?? id be a sweet little round for some long range critter huntin. probably wont mess up the pelt as much either. ill do some looking into. brian

 

[rangerruck]

no, it has been around for many years, called the 17mach IV. many, many peeps, have been handloading it for long time, and cooper, and calhoun, and maybe a couple of other rifle makers have been making rifles for it, long time as well.

 

[rangerruck]

a couple of other quotes;

VARMINTING--Remington Plans 17-221 Fireball Factory Rifle: Remington has confirmed plans to release a factory varmint rifle chambered as a 17-221 Fireball. We have no firm dates for a product launch, but we expect the new rifles to be available in the first quarter of 2007. Currently, Remington offers just one 17-caliber chambering, the .17 Remington. That is available as a Model 700â„¢ BDLâ„¢ or Model 700â„¢ LV SF. Given the efficiency of the Fireball case, we can expect a 17-221 to comfortably reach 4,000 fps with a 20-grainer, and Remington sources have hinted that a 4000-fps factory load will be offered. In 17 Mach IV wildcat form, shooters are reporting 3,850 fps with 25 grainers. From what we are told, the 17-221 will have a slightly longer neck than a 17 Mach IV. That means you won't be able to use Cooper Arms' loaded 17 Mach IV ammo. We haven't seen a blueprint of the new Remington brass yet, so we don't know if the shoulder is the same, with just a longer neck. Accordingly we're not sure whether the current 17 Mach IV full-length dies will work. But you should be able to neck-size the case with a Redding .221 Fireball Type-S die with smaller bushings. You'll find a lengthy discussion of the new 17-221 Fireball in this thread on Saubier.com.

17 Mach IV

Historical Notes:

Introduced by the O'Brian rifle company of Las Vegas, Nevada, this cartridge was intended to offer simple case conversion and good ballistics. It succeeded on both counts but could not compete against factory chambering, i.e. the 17 Remington.

and again;
As wildcatters will with just about any new factory fodder, they promptly deemed the .221 Remington Fireball in need of tweaking. An obvious modification involved the caliber of bullet the case could handle, and Vern O’Brien, a gunsmith from Las Vegas, NV, made it work with a .172-inch bullet by necking down the brass and giving it a 30-degree shoulder. His .17 Mach IV wildcat loaded with a 25-grain bullet produced a muzzle velocity of about 3,850 feet per second. O’Brien built made-to-order rifles chambered in the cartridge starting in the mid-1960s, with other custom gunmakers soon doing the same. Enthusiasm for the .17 Mach IV made it a standout among mini-bore wildcats, and the .17 Remington Fireball closely follows its design.

As you can see, the mach IV came out about 40 years ago. Some dudes did it with a 30 degree shoulder, some with 40 . speeds were varying, but 4000 fps with a 20 grain bullet was the low benchmark. Like I said, Mr. H., here in Houston has been shooting this round for many years, and has handloaded to speeds up to 4300 fps, or very close to it. He just gets a better accuracy when he slows them down to the 4000 fps area.

 

[rangerruck]

Yes, and the old mach 4 is the new fireball, just now so called by Remington. Sure, next time I see him, I'll ask him.