140 VLD Hybrids for hunting?
- Thread starter 270 Rem
- Start date
XTR
F-TR obssessed shooting junkie
Assuming you are talking about the .284s. There are a lot of people who like Hunting VLDs, but there are just about as many who think they are too fragile. The point of using them would be long range, but what do you gain in real life? I responded to this question on another site as below:
How far do you reasonably plan to shoot deer? I shoot 1000 yard F class all the time, I know my limits at 1000 yards and I know how easy it is for a bullet to end up 20" right or left of where you thought it would be due to wind or 15 inches high or low due to DA differences. For me, 600 is the outside limit of where I'll fling one at an animal unless I'm shooting a 7mmRM with a high velocity, high BC heavy that gets 1/2 the drift.
At sea level assuming 2800FPS MV the Berger 140 VLD gets 52.6" drop and 1.8" per MPH of wind, if you use a 140 Accubond you get 54.2" drop and 2.0" drift. (that's a 0.1 mil difference in elevation)
At 600 yards it's 85" and 2.7" vs. 88" and 3", at at 600 both are down to about 1000ft-lb of energy, which is kind of my low threshold for hunting.
Is it worth the difference in price and the PITA VLDs can sometimes be to get them to shoot? It's not to me, the reason I used the 140 Accubond example is that's what I'm using in my new 7-08 hunting rifle.
(All numbers from JBM)
How far do you reasonably plan to shoot deer? I shoot 1000 yard F class all the time, I know my limits at 1000 yards and I know how easy it is for a bullet to end up 20" right or left of where you thought it would be due to wind or 15 inches high or low due to DA differences. For me, 600 is the outside limit of where I'll fling one at an animal unless I'm shooting a 7mmRM with a high velocity, high BC heavy that gets 1/2 the drift.
At sea level assuming 2800FPS MV the Berger 140 VLD gets 52.6" drop and 1.8" per MPH of wind, if you use a 140 Accubond you get 54.2" drop and 2.0" drift. (that's a 0.1 mil difference in elevation)
At 600 yards it's 85" and 2.7" vs. 88" and 3", at at 600 both are down to about 1000ft-lb of energy, which is kind of my low threshold for hunting.
Is it worth the difference in price and the PITA VLDs can sometimes be to get them to shoot? It's not to me, the reason I used the 140 Accubond example is that's what I'm using in my new 7-08 hunting rifle.
(All numbers from JBM)
Very recently some hunting hybrids have shown up on Midway's website. No 6.5s available yet. The first bullets are called Berger Classic Hunter Hybrid hunting bullets. As you can see the BCs are lower than comparable VLD hunting bullets. Here are the first offerings:
243 95 gr BC .427 recommended twist 1 in 10
270 130 gr BC .497 recommended twist 1 in 10
7mm 168 gr BC .604 recommended twist 1 in 10
308 168 gr BC .496 recommended twist 1 in 13
308 185 gr BC .547 recommended twist 1 in 12
Later on they will be making a sleeker higher BC hybrid hunting bullet labeled Elite.
I have read reports of hunters who prefer the target VLDs as well as some who have had good success with the target hybrid. The bearing surface on the target versions is .003-.004" thicker but the nose of either style bullet is the same thickness. Berger is not recommending the use of target bullets because they haven't checked them.
Bob Beck of Extreme Outer Limits recently posted some interesting results using target hybrids for hunting. There are several others who have been sucessful with the 308 cal 230 gr target Hybrid and the OTM tactical hybrid 230 gr hybrid on elk, deer and antelope. Ditto for the .338 300 gr OTM tactical hybrid. Not reading much on people using smaller target hybrids but I'll bet there will be more reports after this fall's hunting season.
243 95 gr BC .427 recommended twist 1 in 10
270 130 gr BC .497 recommended twist 1 in 10
7mm 168 gr BC .604 recommended twist 1 in 10
308 168 gr BC .496 recommended twist 1 in 13
308 185 gr BC .547 recommended twist 1 in 12
Later on they will be making a sleeker higher BC hybrid hunting bullet labeled Elite.
I have read reports of hunters who prefer the target VLDs as well as some who have had good success with the target hybrid. The bearing surface on the target versions is .003-.004" thicker but the nose of either style bullet is the same thickness. Berger is not recommending the use of target bullets because they haven't checked them.
Bob Beck of Extreme Outer Limits recently posted some interesting results using target hybrids for hunting. There are several others who have been sucessful with the 308 cal 230 gr target Hybrid and the OTM tactical hybrid 230 gr hybrid on elk, deer and antelope. Ditto for the .338 300 gr OTM tactical hybrid. Not reading much on people using smaller target hybrids but I'll bet there will be more reports after this fall's hunting season.
270 Rem,
I've used the 140 Hunting VLD in a Pre-64 M-70. I haven't had the chance to shoot venison with it yet, but the accuracy of the load is excellent. It's amazing when your wife buys a lightly used 60 year old gun as a tenth anniversary gift, and you can get it shooting under 3/4 MOA with almost no load development! I started with Berger's recommended 120 thousand's of jump and worked up to book max. Awesome bullets.
I wouldn't hesitate to use those Bergers on game.
I've used the 140 Hunting VLD in a Pre-64 M-70. I haven't had the chance to shoot venison with it yet, but the accuracy of the load is excellent. It's amazing when your wife buys a lightly used 60 year old gun as a tenth anniversary gift, and you can get it shooting under 3/4 MOA with almost no load development! I started with Berger's recommended 120 thousand's of jump and worked up to book max. Awesome bullets.
I wouldn't hesitate to use those Bergers on game.
I shot 2 does last week with the 140 hy out of my 260 AI.
490 yards, 4 shots
#1 broke spine, 2 inches behind scapula.
Now trying for head shots to save meat as the deer is down but still alive, #2 thru jaw.
#3 just below base of scull, missed vertabre.
after 60 seconds, sent one thru center chest deer expired in 5-10 seconds.
minimal expansion, even the spine hit which pushed alot of bone left a relatively small hole as compared to other bullets I have used.
Deer # 2
One shot center punch on the lungs at 460 yards, deer mule kicked and ran 80 yards into a wet meadow/brush.
Found all of about 8 drops of blood in 80 yards. exit hole was smaller than my pinky finger, very snug fit.
I would use the 140 a-max, It has proven very good for me over the years.
490 yards, 4 shots
#1 broke spine, 2 inches behind scapula.
Now trying for head shots to save meat as the deer is down but still alive, #2 thru jaw.
#3 just below base of scull, missed vertabre.
after 60 seconds, sent one thru center chest deer expired in 5-10 seconds.
minimal expansion, even the spine hit which pushed alot of bone left a relatively small hole as compared to other bullets I have used.
Deer # 2
One shot center punch on the lungs at 460 yards, deer mule kicked and ran 80 yards into a wet meadow/brush.
Found all of about 8 drops of blood in 80 yards. exit hole was smaller than my pinky finger, very snug fit.
I would use the 140 a-max, It has proven very good for me over the years.
Jim, thanks for the info, I had planned on using my 260 and the 140 Hyb on an Ibex hunt. Currenty, I shoot the 140 A-max and will use that bullet for the hunt. I have had very good results on antelope with this bullet in my 7mm WSM with the 162 A-max.
I used the 140gr 6.5mm VLD hunting in a 6.5-284 antelope hunting this fall. I got great groups shooting them prior to the hunt and it performed great on the hunt. I dropped the antelope at 350 yards. It was quartering slightly away and there was no exit wound. When we dressed it we found that it had expanded and taken out every single organ inside. It was like a bowl of jelly. I have used the 168gr .308 as well and found they worked just as well.
nastynatesfish
A day which we will live in infamy
I love the 140 vld hunting. I run them in my 7mag and will in my 7-08. They preform great. I shot my buck this year at 385yds.
Entrance
Exit
Entrance
Exit
BigDMT
I have killed 12 animals using the thick jacket Berger "target" VLD's. From antelope to large mule deer bucks at distances from 80 yards to 655 yards. All distances the bullet performed excellent. So I see no reason why the hybrid's wouldn't work. Actually thinking about trying them myself.
Berger is the only hunting bullet I will ever use if it is available for any given caliber. The only hunting rifle I do not use Berger VLD's in is my 358 Norma Mag because Berger does not make 35 cal bullets. So I use the Nosler Partitions with great success in that rifle.
The above pictures posted by "nastynatefish" are reminiscent of my results using the 140gr VLD's in 6.5mm. Very small entrance, very small exit with the most minimal meat damage I have ever seen, but the vitals in the kill zone of the body cavity look like a hand grenade went off in there!
Here's a picture of a large bodied Mule Deer buck I shot at 410 yards. You can see the exit hole in the hide with this picture. So small it didn't even blow the hair out, but his vitals were turned into soup!
Same results with this Mule Deer doe at 425 yards. I actually shot her when she was bedded facing at a very hard quartering angle towards me. Went in the left side base of the neck and out the right side back of the ribs. Entrance hole is so small, you can't even tell where I hit her with the hide on.
Berger is the only hunting bullet I will ever use if it is available for any given caliber. The only hunting rifle I do not use Berger VLD's in is my 358 Norma Mag because Berger does not make 35 cal bullets. So I use the Nosler Partitions with great success in that rifle.
The above pictures posted by "nastynatefish" are reminiscent of my results using the 140gr VLD's in 6.5mm. Very small entrance, very small exit with the most minimal meat damage I have ever seen, but the vitals in the kill zone of the body cavity look like a hand grenade went off in there!
Here's a picture of a large bodied Mule Deer buck I shot at 410 yards. You can see the exit hole in the hide with this picture. So small it didn't even blow the hair out, but his vitals were turned into soup!
Same results with this Mule Deer doe at 425 yards. I actually shot her when she was bedded facing at a very hard quartering angle towards me. Went in the left side base of the neck and out the right side back of the ribs. Entrance hole is so small, you can't even tell where I hit her with the hide on.
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.