131 Blackjack
- Thread starter TZaun
- Start date
nmkid
Gold $$ Contributor
If it's just on Facebook I'll never read it! Wonder why they haven't sent some to a hand loader, (maybe on this forum) so we can get some info. That loader would not be me, as, I'm still trying to get my 25-284 started. Also, I've emailed them twice, never heard a peep from them. Go on their website and most all the barrels listed are out of stock. I realize the barrel situation is not all their fault. Poor planning? We'll see. I really want to shoot their bullets but, getting going has been a bummer!
TZaun
Gold $$ Contributor
I'm not on Facebook either. Tried it for about 6 months and deleted my account.
They aren't going to do themselves any favors if they aren't responding to questions. That alone will turn people away and their venture will not get off the ground. I hope the bullets will shoot. I've read all of their in-house testimonials, but am most interested in real life, mid and long range tuning ease. What cartridges seem to shoot the best, with what powder, etc., just to verify. Using Berger as the standard for BC, and the 131 is as high as advertised, I think Berger only offers a handful of options with better BC, and those all come with quite a bit more recoil. I know a lot of people poo-poo high BC but when you shoot in real wind it does become far more important. I wish Blackjack Bullets the best of luck. I also thank them for trying to fill a void. Gutsy. As said earlier, I really hope those bullets shoot very well.
They aren't going to do themselves any favors if they aren't responding to questions. That alone will turn people away and their venture will not get off the ground. I hope the bullets will shoot. I've read all of their in-house testimonials, but am most interested in real life, mid and long range tuning ease. What cartridges seem to shoot the best, with what powder, etc., just to verify. Using Berger as the standard for BC, and the 131 is as high as advertised, I think Berger only offers a handful of options with better BC, and those all come with quite a bit more recoil. I know a lot of people poo-poo high BC but when you shoot in real wind it does become far more important. I wish Blackjack Bullets the best of luck. I also thank them for trying to fill a void. Gutsy. As said earlier, I really hope those bullets shoot very well.
Kurz
Silver $$ Contributor
With respect, you are about a year behind the 8 ball on this release. Most of us who committed to these bullets got on the list a year ago and received our bullets just a few months ago. The barrels have been online for at least 6 months if not longer. Also bear in mind that this is still hunting season and the folks who have created this design and are running this business are hunters and shooters so they're probably busy pursuing their choices of game or competing.
It often took a few days for me to get a response even after paying out several hundred dollars for barrels and bullets. They are a small business and busy, please try to give them a break.
Currently I'm running:
1- .257 Weatherby
1- .257 Banshee (6.5x68 necked down IMPROVED)
1- .25-284
I have another barrel coming which will be a .25 Creedmoor or a .25 WSM.
These bullets are long, 1.415" with a G7 BC of .330 based on shooting derived numbers.
The Weatherby and Banshee are exceeding 3,300 fps while still being relatively normal pressure. The .284 case is slightly less of course all using 26" barrels. I have a 31" Bartlein Heavy Varmint on my bench so eventually I'll start a longer range target cartridge. All twist rates are 1:7" or 1:7.25" per the barrel makers. 1,000 yards is a piece of cake and these bullets will kill deer, at least the one I shot and others as reported.
G7 of .330!!!???? Yikes
TZaun
Gold $$ Contributor
Very sleek bullets by the sound of it. Hopefully somebody chimes in with some good info on them.
Kurz
Silver $$ Contributor
What kind of 'good info' are you thinking you need?
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
Well, how about whether they actually perform as advertised? That kind of good info. I've tried a few bullets that on paper looked too good to be true. They usually were too good to be true. These Blackjack bullets require a completely new setup (barrel, dies) in order to try them. So, a few questions about their performance from sources other than the folks that sell them isn't unreasonable.
For example, these bullets are made by Sierra, correct? Do they come pointed from the factory like other Sierra bullets? Does the advertised BC match reasonably well with velocity/drop numbers? What kind of precision have folks using them been able to obtain? Any fliers? Especially occasional [but regular] random fliers?
Any relatively new bullet offering may potentially have design issues and/or be difficult to tune. Word of mouth from those using a new offering is usually a good way to find out whether they have had problems with them out of the gate, which usually a good sign to try something else. On the other hand, if they do behave exactly as advertised, this bullet may well be a game changer. Either way, feedback from current users is a good place to start.
I have bullets for dummy cartridges and this is the most info I can offer.
20 random out of 100
3 @131.1
17@131.2
advertised length 1.415
actual 1.415 - 1.419 avg 1.416
BTO 14@.7285
4@.729
2@.7245
they are made by Sierra and are pointed
there are people looking for info on another site but no answers and owners seem to be AOL. hope that others will chime in somewhere actual info would be helpful.
20 random out of 100
3 @131.1
17@131.2
advertised length 1.415
actual 1.415 - 1.419 avg 1.416
BTO 14@.7285
4@.729
2@.7245
they are made by Sierra and are pointed
there are people looking for info on another site but no answers and owners seem to be AOL. hope that others will chime in somewhere actual info would be helpful.
Ive seen enough info on them and videos that im ordering 10,000 bullets right off the bat along with a ton of proof carbon barrels. Ill be primarily using them in 25sst cases. The ballistics are more than 10% less wind drift and drop compared to a 6.5 saum w a 140 berger at 3050 fps. At the altitude customers mule deer hunt etc at, 5,000 ft, its like 17.3 moa of drop to 1000 with a 131 at 3300 fps. 39" of wind drift at 1000 in a 10 mph wind and 1320 ft lbs of energy. Straight up laser with no recoil.
TZaun
Gold $$ Contributor
I would not have guessed it would carry that much energy out to 1,000 yards. For hunting purposes, what is the minimum a guy should use when figuring max kill range? I've used 1,000 ft-lbs in the past but that may be the wrong number to use? I know there's tons of variables involved, but is there a magic number for energy needed? Shot placement probably plays big into that number -- shoulder vs. ribs.
When you get some rifles chambered up and can shoot for accuracy out to 1,000 I'd really like to hear what you find. I'm not familiar with an SST case but have to imagine it would be pretty overbore for F-Class shooting if you can drive that 131 gr. that hard? Do you have any projects lined up using a cartridge with the case capacity that would be suitable for F-Class strings of fire? I'd think a 25-260AI would be a nice cartridge for that, unless that too is just a bit too big?
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
Thanks to everyone for responding....keep the responses coming.
Run the ballistics with this bullet using the advertised BC out to 1000 yd from a 6.5x47 Lapua case at >/= 2940 fps. On paper, it should keep up with a 180 Hybrid out of a .284 Win F-Open rifle at ~2820 fps, with a LOT less recoil. I view this bullet as analogous to shooting 90 VLDs in a .223 Win in F-TR, except for use in F-Open class. Of course, that will be true only IF the advertised BC is spot on and IF they can be loaded with acceptable precision, more specifically, a lack of unexplained fliers. That is the reason threads like this where those actually using them can report their findings and impressions are so useful.
Run the ballistics with this bullet using the advertised BC out to 1000 yd from a 6.5x47 Lapua case at >/= 2940 fps. On paper, it should keep up with a 180 Hybrid out of a .284 Win F-Open rifle at ~2820 fps, with a LOT less recoil. I view this bullet as analogous to shooting 90 VLDs in a .223 Win in F-TR, except for use in F-Open class. Of course, that will be true only IF the advertised BC is spot on and IF they can be loaded with acceptable precision, more specifically, a lack of unexplained fliers. That is the reason threads like this where those actually using them can report their findings and impressions are so useful.
The SST is a saum improved, Sherman shortmag tactical, its shortened and then blown out a bit to give a more optimal neck length/shoulder junction for the heavier bullets to run in a short action. If a guy didn't push it hard then it would lower pressures substantially and your barrel would last quite a while for the performance. Ive seen quite a few people posting bc's that were actually higher than what blackjack advertises. After they trued everything up they were in the .340-.350 range for a g7. I wouldn't of guessed those ballistics either until I plugged them in. As far as energy its more shot placement and impact velocity in my opinion. Ive used the 140 target hybrid to harvest an antelope at 1200 yds. it only had 892 ft lbs of energy when it hit. exit hole was the size of a golf ball and it didn't go far at all. We killed another half dozen or so on that trip in the 600-850 range and they all dropped like a sack of bricks. Since then ive switched to the elite hunters and theyre even more devastating on game. I will give the blackjacks a thorough accuracy evaluation as I will be doing a 25-47 as well in a month or so. Im not worried about it not shooting though as Ive seen enough groups from other people that prove that it shoots. One was a 10 shot group at 300 off a bipod that measured .3 moa. it was about 3/4" tall by 1.00" wide.
TZaun
Gold $$ Contributor
Thanks for jumping in and providing some good info Ryan. That 25x47 looks intriguing too. I was unsure if that would be a tad too small for the 131. Ned, did you run this combo on QL to determine the 2940 fps? I have QL but don't know how to create new cartridges or bullets to put together scenarios like this. I could see where throating long and running H4350 could be a good long range combo. If you did run that through QL to get the 2940 fps target, could I bother you to also run a 25-260 to see how that looks to you also? I think since that will hold ~6-7 gr. more than the 47L it could open up a few more powder choices.
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