Maybe I missed something but being a Savage with a nut, why not just re-set the headspace on it and be done with that? It should be set to a go gage and not to virgin brass. And from what I've read here, it's really close or within spec to a gage but the brass is running short. Am I wrong about this?
Help me understand what I am seeing.
- Thread starter Pirate69
- Start date
Most shooters don't know it, but if you find a Savage rifle in .223 with a freebore less than .100", the rest of the chamber is out of spec also. When Savage started chambering the .223 back in 1981, they decided they would bypass all the 5.56 debacle by using a longer freebore from the get go.
The reamers they use typically start out with a freebore section around .200". As they get dull and are resharpened, it's only the freebore section that gets sharpened. When that section is sharpened past the minimum, they are discarded.
Anybody that tells you that you can't shoot 5.56 NATO in a Savage .223 doesn't know what they are talking about. If you ask an official from Savage, they will say you can't....but that is just lawyer speak.
Whole lotta overthinking here.
Forget a no-go gage. If you want to know EXACTLY what your headspace is at a given shoulder datum, stick a piece of Plastigage on the boltface and close it on the go gauge.
When I chamber, I won't accept more than go +.002. Just my personal standard. Doesn't mean jack s**** for a reloader- but for anyone shooting factory ammo, or if the rifle is ever sold to anyone shooting factory, I always chamber to SAAMI spec.
It's literally impossible for a Savage to be "out of spec" on headspace, it's a nutted barrel.
There could only be an issue if the chamber were reamed so deep that the extractor can't grab the rim.
YOU set the headspace.
In your case, your fired case datum is .460.
Set your FL die to bump to .458.
Done.
Forget neck sizing. Serves no purpose.
Forget a no-go gage. If you want to know EXACTLY what your headspace is at a given shoulder datum, stick a piece of Plastigage on the boltface and close it on the go gauge.
When I chamber, I won't accept more than go +.002. Just my personal standard. Doesn't mean jack s**** for a reloader- but for anyone shooting factory ammo, or if the rifle is ever sold to anyone shooting factory, I always chamber to SAAMI spec.
It's literally impossible for a Savage to be "out of spec" on headspace, it's a nutted barrel.
There could only be an issue if the chamber were reamed so deep that the extractor can't grab the rim.
YOU set the headspace.
In your case, your fired case datum is .460.
Set your FL die to bump to .458.
Done.
Forget neck sizing. Serves no purpose.
I agree with you on everything you said but I'm not sure where the .460/.458 numbers came from. Should that be 1.460/1.458? Just wondering. It's probably just something I'm missing or missed somewhere within the thread. Thanks
How much is tea in China?
Kinda my point. I'm not sure what the case oal matters either, within reason.
Just left out the "1" 'cause I'm inherently lazy
More at 
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DShortt
Gold $$ Contributor
If you read post #1, the OP has got the idea in his head that the 'headspace' is .0111" because that is the difference in case head to shoulder datum between his once fired cases and his FLS cases.
As long as he's confused about that, there's not much that can be said that will make sense.
As long as he's confused about that, there's not much that can be said that will make sense.
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Close enough. For better case fit, set fl die with .005" between shell holder and bottom of fl die.
Forget free bore. Shoot and target will tell all thats needed.
Okay, maybe I am confused. Maybe you can educate me. If I gave you a loaded round, that the case was known to be at the minimum SAAMI spec. What would you do with it to determine the headspace in the rifle you fired it in?
DShortt
Gold $$ Contributor
My first question would be, how did you determine it's at minimum SAAMI spec?
You can't just run a case through a full-length sizing die and call it minimum spec because the die body contacts the shell holder.
If I were doing something like this, I would measure a GO gauge with my comparator, then measure the sized case with the same comparator and see if they match in length.
The comparator will not necessarily give an accurate reading. They are called comparators because they are really only useful in comparing dimensions. They aren't necessarily precision measuring tools made to exact specifications. Hence, they may not, and likely won't provide a measurement that is exactly correct.
You can't just run a case through a full-length sizing die and call it minimum spec because the die body contacts the shell holder.
If I were doing something like this, I would measure a GO gauge with my comparator, then measure the sized case with the same comparator and see if they match in length.
The comparator will not necessarily give an accurate reading. They are called comparators because they are really only useful in comparing dimensions. They aren't necessarily precision measuring tools made to exact specifications. Hence, they may not, and likely won't provide a measurement that is exactly correct.
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Yessir and using a gage and a comparator will only get ya close. Think about it for a minute. This is something people rarely consider.
Everything has tolerances, so both the reamer and the gauge has tolerances beyond the gunsmith work. The stated tolerances for the angles on most reamers is 1/4 of a full degree. So, in order to make sure a hs gage fits all chambers with an X degree shoulder, the gauge must allow for that tolerance with both the gauge and the reamer. So, unless the comparator is exactly the same diameter as the datum line, you won't get the exact same dimension using a gauge vs a case. You just can't do that! In theory you can, but not in the real world.
Just thought I'd toss that out there because people virtually never think about nor mention it. I think most people assume they will be the same...but they rarely are due to how a slight angle variance can pretty drastically affect the end number. Again...1/4° is the STATED tolerance. Not my or anyone else's opinion.
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ELR LVR
Silver $$ Contributor
^^^^^^^ b i n g o
and bingo was his name-O!!!
DShortt
Gold $$ Contributor
^^^^^^ Absolutely ^^^^^
DShortt
Gold $$ Contributor
I'm not widely versed in machining operations used in a wide variety of applications.
So when I first encountered the fact that headspace is measured from the bolt face to a circle of a specific diameter and it's contact on the case shoulder angle.......
Well. Let's just say it took a while for that situation to make sense to me. But it finally did.
And then, compound that with everything having tolerances.
So when I first encountered the fact that headspace is measured from the bolt face to a circle of a specific diameter and it's contact on the case shoulder angle.......
Well. Let's just say it took a while for that situation to make sense to me. But it finally did.
And then, compound that with everything having tolerances.
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