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Trim/chamfer/debur on progressive, please

J.d. Popkes

Not a democrat. Or competitor.
Silver $$ Contributor
Why don’t someone go just a little farther than just a trimmer and put a 3 way cutter on one of those. This one appears to take a 1/2” shank end mill so it’s better than the Dillon as usual, being removable probably with a collet, basically a little router, which I see others using.

Anyway. Little router, Henderson or Giraud cutter, trim die, vacuum, take my money.

Has anyone? Can anyone? Is it a trim die id clearance issue?

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Just a suggestion. Look at the lee trimmer that fit in the normal die hole. It works OK for length maintenance and it cleans up the inside and outside chamfers. You will need to grind some clearance to clear the shell plate.

This is not an elegant solution and will make you curse some, but it has been done. Cost me some brass pushing the learning this far.

It wants to turn a slow drill speeds and faster than small cordless screw driver speeds.
 
Look at the lee trimmer that fit in the normal die hole. I
That's what I use. Fast, easy, inexpensive. Pro tip: ensure the cutter is on the case mouth before starting, else the chamfer / deburr blades will catch and bend. Keep a few on hand just in case.

My power screwdriver is narrow, if I needed to clear the other dies I would just put a bit extender on it.

 
If nothing better comes along....

TLDR: Consider a flare.

I also have no love for a straight cut, but that is all there is for progressive rigs.

I run the vast majority of my loading in large batches on progressive loaders, not everything but most of it. By no means should what I am about to say be interpreted as the way I do all my loading, but not all loading is the same so this suggestion is not for everyone or all types of loading.

When faced with bucket loads of prairie dog ammo to be done, I wasn't about to run them all by hand through a Giraud or Henderson, nor am I typically going to hand feed them over chamfer tools in all situations.

An alternative that I found to be easy enough, is to slightly flare the case mouths in the similar fashion as pistol ammo. It works just as well on bottleneck cases when done carefully.

You can buy a Lee universal flare die or you can make your own tools. I have made my own for 204 and 17 cal.

The flare does two things. It turns that kerf angle of the sharp edge just enough to prevent it from cutting/scratching the jacket, and it also dulls that edge.

I must mention another detail here about my processing order since I multi-stage the processing on the Dillon 750 or 1050.

When that trim die is sizing the necks, the case is lubed. When that stage is done, the cases are tumbled to remove the lube and this step also helps dull that edge and also removes any swarf. My flare occurs later during the loading stage.

The seating step is followed with a taper crimp to insure there isn't any flare left after seating, but to be honest the flare is small enough that there is little of it after seating in most instances and the taper crimp is only to ensure the case mouth is straightened.

With boat tail bullets, the flare prevents the sharp edge of the straight cut from scratching the bullet, and it even makes the bullet placement easier for the bullet feeder or your hands. I don't run giant batches of flat base bullets, so no comment on how those would run but my guess is this would make them much easier to place/start as well.

I do sometimes prefer to hand run 223 cases over motorized chamfer tools just before the tumble step, but I must explain why. The reason is that a chamfer tool can "detect" split necks. Not all brass does this, but 223 AR brass does it much more than bolt gun brass.

There is a distinct "clicking" that is felt when a neck is about to crack or has started to crack as the cutting edges of the chamfer tool work the neck. This begins to happen statistically after several cycles but before the whole batch gets retired. I can catch about five to seven cases per thousand at this step, and that is after rejecting some before even getting started. So for me, manual chamfering is worth that screen, and then I usually still flare them.

So, consider the flare option when running the straight cut. Just food for thought until someone invents a better mouse trap. YMMV
 
If nothing better comes along....

TLDR: Consider a flare.

I also have no love for a straight cut, but that is all there is for progressive rigs.

I run the vast majority of my loading in large batches on progressive loaders, not everything but most of it. By no means should what I am about to say be interpreted as the way I do all my loading, but not all loading is the same so this suggestion is not for everyone or all types of loading.

When faced with bucket loads of prairie dog ammo to be done, I wasn't about to run them all by hand through a Giraud or Henderson, nor am I typically going to hand feed them over chamfer tools in all situations.

An alternative that I found to be easy enough, is to slightly flare the case mouths in the similar fashion as pistol ammo. It works just as well on bottleneck cases when done carefully.

You can buy a Lee universal flare die or you can make your own tools. I have made my own for 204 and 17 cal.

The flare does two things. It turns that kerf angle of the sharp edge just enough to prevent it from cutting/scratching the jacket, and it also dulls that edge.

I must mention another detail here about my processing order since I multi-stage the processing on the Dillon 750 or 1050.

When that trim die is sizing the necks, the case is lubed. When that stage is done, the cases are tumbled to remove the lube and this step also helps dull that edge and also removes any swarf. My flare occurs later during the loading stage.

The seating step is followed with a taper crimp to insure there isn't any flare left after seating, but to be honest the flare is small enough that there is little of it after seating in most instances and the taper crimp is only to ensure the case mouth is straightened.

With boat tail bullets, the flare prevents the sharp edge of the straight cut from scratching the bullet, and it even makes the bullet placement easier for the bullet feeder or your hands. I don't run giant batches of flat base bullets, so no comment on how those would run but my guess is this would make them much easier to place/start as well.

I do sometimes prefer to hand run 223 cases over motorized chamfer tools just before the tumble step, but I must explain why. The reason is that a chamfer tool can "detect" split necks. Not all brass does this, but 223 AR brass does it much more than bolt gun brass.

There is a distinct "clicking" that is felt when a neck is about to crack or has started to crack as the cutting edges of the chamfer tool work the neck. This begins to happen statistically after several cycles but before the whole batch gets retired. I can catch about five to seven cases per thousand at this step, and that is after rejecting some before even getting started. So for me, manual chamfering is worth that screen, and then I usually still flare them.

So, consider the flare option when running the straight cut. Just food for thought until someone invents a better mouse trap. YMMV
Now that is how you post. Thanks
 
I also have no love for a straight cut, but that is all there is for progressive rigs.
Not so much.

 
I built my own Lee Quick Trim Chamfer coupler and bolted a motor to it. I still trim using a the Bosch router and end mill with a trim die. All the Lee Quick trim does is knock off any cut dross off the case mouth (I backed off the cutter so it doesn't cut). It isn't industrial but it is functional.

I haven't had to process any brass in some time as I went through and processed all my 556 brass in one sitting as it took some setup and tweaking to get it all running smoothly. I had a bunch and have been recycling that batch for a while now. I'm not sure I've made it through a single firing yet.

Cheers,
Toby
 
Not so much.

I was fully aware of the Lee tooling, and adapting this to the Dillon has been brought up before.

A couple of seasons back, a guy was polling the forum to gage interest in his version of using the Lee tool that he motorized and arranged for mounting on a Dillon. It didn't get much interest or support and we didn't hear much more about it.

I bought the Lee chamfer tool and looked at doing the same thing, but after testing the quality of the chamfer, gave up on the idea since it would have required more fuss than what I was doing with the flare, for no real advantage.

If you motorize one of the Lee chamfer tools, there is either going to be the need to automate the shut-off, or you would have to only run the press with the auto drive and just time the dwell. Otherwise, the tool will continue to remove material since the chamfer blades are on a spring load.

This tooling also makes a mess that would require additional vacuum tooling to catch all the chips and keep them from clogging the machine.

These problems aren't impossible to solve, but I just don't care to spend the time or energy on it since the flare works. YMMV
 
I was fully aware of the Lee tooling, and adapting this to the Dillon has been brought up before.

A couple of seasons back, a guy was polling the forum to gage interest in his version of using the Lee tool that he motorized and arranged for mounting on a Dillon. It didn't get much interest or support and we didn't hear much more about it.

I bought the Lee chamfer tool and looked at doing the same thing, but after testing the quality of the chamfer, gave up on the idea since it would have required more fuss than what I was doing with the flare, for no real advantage.

If you motorize one of the Lee chamfer tools, there is either going to be the need to automate the shut-off, or you would have to only run the press with the auto drive and just time the dwell. Otherwise, the tool will continue to remove material since the chamfer blades are on a spring load.

This tooling also makes a mess that would require additional vacuum tooling to catch all the chips and keep them from clogging the machine.

These problems aren't impossible to solve, but I just don't care to spend the time or energy on it since the flare works. YMMV
Yeah I’m not interested in Lee stuff as a general rule. That trimmer doesn’t really apply here. Except their powder throwers and crimp dies, maybe a primer tool. I just thought the existing die, motor, vacuum attachment, would be able to stay. Just the cutting head.

I don’t know how accurate and consistent it would be. But if it was……. It’d be so cool for my better non-bulk brass prep. Anneal, throw in the case feeder, size, mandrel, trim, prime, I’d probably still use the v3 - ingenuity for powder and seat single stage.

Brass prep is a drag.
 
Last edited:
If nothing better comes along....

TLDR: Consider a flare.

I also have no love for a straight cut, but that is all there is for progressive rigs.

I run the vast majority of my loading in large batches on progressive loaders, not everything but most of it. By no means should what I am about to say be interpreted as the way I do all my loading, but not all loading is the same so this suggestion is not for everyone or all types of loading.

When faced with bucket loads of prairie dog ammo to be done, I wasn't about to run them all by hand through a Giraud or Henderson, nor am I typically going to hand feed them over chamfer tools in all situations.

An alternative that I found to be easy enough, is to slightly flare the case mouths in the similar fashion as pistol ammo. It works just as well on bottleneck cases when done carefully.

You can buy a Lee universal flare die or you can make your own tools. I have made my own for 204 and 17 cal.

The flare does two things. It turns that kerf angle of the sharp edge just enough to prevent it from cutting/scratching the jacket, and it also dulls that edge.

I must mention another detail here about my processing order since I multi-stage the processing on the Dillon 750 or 1050.

When that trim die is sizing the necks, the case is lubed. When that stage is done, the cases are tumbled to remove the lube and this step also helps dull that edge and also removes any swarf. My flare occurs later during the loading stage.

The seating step is followed with a taper crimp to insure there isn't any flare left after seating, but to be honest the flare is small enough that there is little of it after seating in most instances and the taper crimp is only to ensure the case mouth is straightened.

With boat tail bullets, the flare prevents the sharp edge of the straight cut from scratching the bullet, and it even makes the bullet placement easier for the bullet feeder or your hands. I don't run giant batches of flat base bullets, so no comment on how those would run but my guess is this would make them much easier to place/start as well.

I do sometimes prefer to hand run 223 cases over motorized chamfer tools just before the tumble step, but I must explain why. The reason is that a chamfer tool can "detect" split necks. Not all brass does this, but 223 AR brass does it much more than bolt gun brass.

There is a distinct "clicking" that is felt when a neck is about to crack or has started to crack as the cutting edges of the chamfer tool work the neck. This begins to happen statistically after several cycles but before the whole batch gets retired. I can catch about five to seven cases per thousand at this step, and that is after rejecting some before even getting started. So for me, manual chamfering is worth that screen, and then I usually still flare them.

So, consider the flare option when running the straight cut. Just food for thought until someone invents a better mouse trap. YMMV
Lyman M Die.
 
I bought the Lee chamfer tool and looked at doing the same thing, but after testing the quality of the chamfer, gave up on the idea since it would have required more fuss than what I was doing with the flare, for no real advantage.

If you motorize one of the Lee chamfer tools, there is either going to be the need to automate the shut-off, or you would have to only run the press with the auto drive and just time the dwell. Otherwise, the tool will continue to remove material since the chamfer blades are on a spring load.

This tooling also makes a mess that would require additional vacuum tooling to catch all the chips and keep them from clogging the machine.

These problems aren't impossible to solve, but I just don't care to spend the time or energy on it since the flare works. YMMV
Yeah I hesitated to call it chamfering as it doesn't really chamfer anything on the case mouth, it really only removes any burr's from trimming.

I backed off the Lee cutter and it just let it run just like the Bosch trimmer runs while you process brass. When finished you turn off both units. Yes my S1050 is automated.

The bulk of the mess is at trimming and I have a custom 3D Printed vacuum shroud similar to the Dillon trimmer. The Lee unit does make small mess but nothing a quick blast with compressed air/vacuum can't handle.

I wouldn't do this for any precision/hunting brass. I only process volumes of 556 brass in this manner. I'm not uber concerned about the quality of the chamfer but need to make sure the case is trimmed to fit. Another option would be to just stainless tumble the brass post trim to knock off any burr from trimming.

Cheers,
Toby
 
it doesn't really chamfer anything on the case mouth,
Not sure why you would say that? The chamfer cutter puts a 45d chamfer on the inside. The deburring cutter takes off the burrs.
The chamfer is not as smooth / pretty as a hand-held tool like the K&M Controlled Depth Tapered Reamer, but it works in the sense that the bullets aren't scuffed up or shaved.
push the shellplate up, lower the Lee tool / screwdriver, engage for a few seconds and carry on.
I would hesitate to do this on a fully-automated progressive, the dwell time / your personal reflexes would be straining.
 

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