Time to make the donuts....

[jackieschmidt]

Pure lead or lead-antimony alloy.
Why prefer one over the other?

I use what ever Charley Hood furnishes.

All I know is they are not pure lead.

 

[AlNyhus]

Al who made those punches they look they are straight ground with no shoulder Thanks

Not much shoulder as the major punch diameter is .312". If you look closely, you can see it. -Al

 

[David Conder]

Al all of my Ulrich an Simmons punches have a shoulder I will post a picture
Thanks Al

 

[20PPC]

@AlNyhus @RGRobinett had a conversation today with a friend, regarding the diameter of the ejector pin.
It seems most dies are using a .062 while one of the steel die makers uses a .080.
Clearly you cannot close the meplat as small with the larger pin but does it have a dramatic effect on the performance of the bullet ?

 

[RGRobinett]

@alnyh @rgroI had a conversation today with a friend, regarding the diameter of the ejector pin.
It seems most dies are using a .062 while one of the steel die makers uses a .080.
Clearly you cannot close the meplat as small with the larger pin but does it have a dramatic effect on the performance of the bullet ?

A close approximation: each 0.010" reduction/increase of me'plat (K.O. pin diameter) will increase/decrease G1 BC roughly 0.030.

All else equal, for a full-value, constant vector/constant velocity wind, over 200 Yd., the difference would amount to about 0.020" (more/less) wind-drift per mile an hour. Hypothetically, regarding precision, this has no affect.

Realistically, especially at point-blank BR, we aren't good enough to dope the difference, which
would be roughly 1/20Th MPH, or, 5% of the drift of the worst bullet . . . what people believe
is another story . . . On a given day, EDGES work only for the winner . . . RG

 

[Schippergreg]

How much are you guys closing the meplat? Just enough that it ejects reliably with the pin just inside the meplat or is the pin on the outside of the meplat? I plan on testing varying amounts of point up as soon as the weather breaks freezing, but curious where you have found the best accuracy.

 

[20PPC]

I have 2 friends that close the meplat up to the point it is just starting to deform, to look at them you would swear they wouldn't shoot.
In both cases they have both taken home more wood than you would ever imagine.

 

[D Coots]

When pointing up I like no more pressure than is required to push bullet out of die.

It's good for discussion and there are many things to be learned, but some Dude with a Funny Hat once told me about barrels and bullets....it's on the paper.

Later

Dave

 

[GoWyo!]

GoWyo!: If you have the punches, the punch nut should be pretty straight forward. Even if you aren't going to use the dies, I'd sure encourage you to have this done so the set is complete.

Any suggestions? Somebody mentioned having one on the saubiers’ bullet making thread, but we never connected. I imagine any machine shop could turn one out…ok, I’ll look around town. I’ll have him make some ejector pin caps as well since I don’t have any of those either.

 

[liseo]

How much are you guys closing the meplat? Just enough that it ejects reliably with the pin just inside the meplat or is the pin on the outside of the meplat? I plan on testing varying amounts of point up as soon as the weather breaks freezing, but curious where you have found the best accuracy.

I'm far from being an expert, but I believe the KO pin should eject by touching the outside of the meplat.

For me, the point-up part always seemed the simplest to understand. Enough pressure to close the tip until the jacket starts to flow into the ejector pin hole and back up slightly. Enough lubrication so that you feel very slight resistance when ejecting.

 

[20PPC]

When pointing up I like no more pressure than is required to push bullet out of die.

It's good for discussion and there are many things to be learned, but some Dude with a Funny Hat once told me about barrels and bullets....it's on the paper.

Later

Dave

You definitely have to " spin test them " spin them down the barrel and let the target tell you what works and what doesn't.

 

[AlNyhus]

Any suggestions? Somebody mentioned having one on the saubiers’ bullet making thread, but we never connected. I imagine any machine shop could turn one out…ok, I’ll look around town.

Just check the threading inside the ram. If it's a standard USS or SAE thread, you might be able to simply modify a hex head bolt as the punch nut.

 

[AlNyhus]

@AlNyhus @RGRobinett had a conversation today with a friend, regarding the diameter of the ejector pin.
It seems most dies are using a .062 while one of the steel die makers uses a .080.
Clearly you cannot close the meplat as small with the larger pin but does it have a dramatic effect on the performance of the bullet ?

Morning, Dave. My Blackmon steel .30's use a .062 ejector. Not sure if that's always been the case over the years, though. -Al

 

[AlNyhus]

Funny story (kinda') about some B&A dies like @GoWyo! showed. I usually avoid gun shows. But a year ago, I went to a local one that attracts quite a few vendors of vintage stuff. One vendor had a stretch of tables covered with dies and there in a tattered cardboard box was what appeared to be a complete set of B&A bullet dies in what appeared to be 22 cal. with $150 marked on it. I asked the vendor, a old crabby-azzed geezer type, if I could look at them. He shrugged his shoulders ok. I told him I'd be right back, scampered to the rest room for some paper towels and headed back there. I laid down the towels and started taking the dies out and putting them in order on the towels. All the while, Mr. Crabby Bastid is giving me the chicken eye. About half way through putting them in order, the 'ol crab says: "I said you could look at them, not paw all over 'em".

I gently put them back in the tattered cardboard box, set them back on the table and walked away.

Old Crabby Appleton is probably still pizzed at Winchester going back to '65.

 

[David Conder]

Al here are some of punch assortment for 6an 30 some are Simmons an Dettch
an uirich dies

 

[David Conder]

Al here are some of punch assortment for 6an 30 some are Simmons an Dettch
an uirich dies

 

[brcman]

How much are you guys closing the meplat? Just enough that it ejects reliably with the pin just inside the meplat or is the pin on the outside of the meplat? I plan on testing varying amounts of point up as soon as the weather breaks freezing, but curious where you have found the best accuracy.

From my experience it will vary from one lot of jackets to another, I just finished doing 2 different lots of jackets/bullets. The first lot pointed up how I prefer with the punch barely touching the tip of the bullet and resulted in the bullet coming out of the point up die with very little resistance. The second lot required a die adjustment to where the I could see that the entire ejector pin mark contacting just inside the the meplat and this resulted in a little more resistance to eject. There was .015 difference to the base to ogive measurement.

 

[Tim Singleton]

From my experience it will vary from one lot of jackets to another, I just finished doing 2 different lots of jackets/bullets. The first lot pointed up how I prefer with the punch barely touching the tip of the bullet and resulted in the bullet coming out of the point up die with very little resistance. The second lot required a die adjustment to where the I could see that the entire ejector pin mark contacting just inside the the meplat and this resulted in a little more resistance to eject. There was .015 difference to the base to ogive measurement.

I’ve used @RGRobinett method to draw back some tougher lots of j4 jackets it does help.
Adds another few steps to the process tho

 

[jackieschmidt]

You definitely have to " spin test them " spin them down the barrel and let the target tell you what works and what doesn't.

With my 30’s, we found that there is something to be said in this.
We played around with going up in just far enough so the knock out pin did its job, (maximum diameter metplate), to where it just stated to “fish mouth”.

We found that the smallest metplate just before fish mouth shot the best.

I made a little tool to measure the Ogive to base, and we strive to keep it right there. The one on the right is our master “gage”. You can see the difference in the metplate diameter and how much it affects the ogive to base measurement.

 

[D Coots]

Seems like the hard and fast rules about dies is that there are no hard and fast rules about dies. Find that sweet spot and stick with it.

Like women, they all have strange personalities....

Later

Dave