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Jumping,in the lands or jamming

This is out of my 6.5x300wsm with a 23 E.S explain this.


Anything is POSSIBLE.

But high ES / SD *should* be expected to produce vertical stringing and the loader is wise to look for low SD / ES.

Anyway.... 23 ES is not crazy high. I wouldnt make any decision on a 5 shot group. That could be shooter hold.
 
This is out of my 6.5x300wsm with a 18- 23 E.S explain this.
I've shot it 3 times with the same result everytime at 665 yards.

Again... anything is possible.

But Im *always* gonna look for a low ES /SD.

Always.

If you dont wanna do that, peace be unto you. broski. ( smile)
 
Anything is POSSIBLE.

But high ES / SD *should* be expected to produce vertical stringing and the loader is wise to look for low SD / ES.

Anyway.... 23 ES is not crazy high. I wouldnt make any decision on a 5 shot group. That could be shooter hold.
I never said it was crazy high, its why I said determine what is high.
Another example is in my 30-28 I was trying to find pressure during load development and it shot 3 shots exactly 3101fps and it was the worst its ever shot 2" of vertical at 100.
 
I certainly will.
What is low E.S? Single? 10' 20's 30's etc.

I was answering someone elses question, as to address what has worked for me in about a dozen rifles. I dont presume to be able to teach everyone about their rifle.

I'll wish you a happy new year.
 
I was answering someone elses question, as to address what has worked for me in about a dozen rifles. I dont presume to be able to teach everyone about their rifle.

I'll wish you a happy new year.
All I'm pointing out is numbers don't always equate to what an App or Chrono is suppose to be.
Do I look for low E.S like single digits? Of course I do because I have loads that do shoot well there in other rifles that do but it doesn't determine my load the target does evertime in every single rifle I have which is about 2 dozen and the 7 or 8 others I load for friends and family.
 
All I'm pointing out is numbers don't always equate to what an App or Chrono is suppose to be.
Do I look for low E.S like single digits? Of course I do because I have loads that do shoot well there in other rifles that do but it doesn't determine my load the target does evertime in every single rifle I have which is about 2 dozen and the 7 or 8 others I load for friends and family.

You r debating an entirely different topic than what was asked in the question I answered.

In the question I answered , it was group shot at 100 yards using a chronograph, trying to anticipate what's gonna happen at distance.

In that scenario , i'm always going to look at low sd and es.

Now when shooting at six hundred yards or more, ( what you are doing and you are talking about, which is totally different than the question asked) and I have a 100 fps es , BUT it groups half moa, then I don't care what es says.

BUT IF I'M DOING WHAT WAS ASKED IN THE QUESTION ABOVE - Shooting 100 yard groups , and i'm trying to figure out what load to go with at distance, SD/ ES is driving the bus, NOT group size.
 
I've mainly jumped bullets..
In recent years I've tried some just touching that worked with the same bullet in 2 different 7mm cartridges..
Recently tried the 6.5 cal 130gr eldms 9 to 10 thousandths in..
They were OK but not great..
Educate me on in the lands and jamming..
At what point in the lands is jam..?
Atb NID
Watch this video on You Tube best I have seen.
 
That's the real problem isn't it? Small group size at 100 may not relate to small group at 600. But, small es may not relate to a small group at 600 either.

Few gurantees in this sport.

I think it *is* possible to say high ES has a strong possilility of NOT grouping well at 600.

My experience with about a dozen rifles is that ES below 20 all grouped well at distance.
 
Except I've had lots of loads below 20 ES that did not group well at distance. ES is a good starting point, but, is just one aspect. Heck, I've had loads under 10 ES that didn't group well. Still have to be on a node.

Like you said, few guarantees.
 
I shoot cartridges that quickly move the throat. Rather than trying to maintain some magical jump, I seat long with a light neck tension and let the bolt seat them the rest of the way. Yea, a bullet might stay behind if unloading a round. Be aware, prepare, and deal with it.
After many years of fiddling with what depth works, I found that (in my target rifles), my best results were usually found using the procedure you use. I have stuck a few bullets, dumping powder and on one occasion, put me out of action with powder down in my Jewell trigger housing - which isn't quickly removed. I found that on the bullets I moly coated, I never had a problem sticking a bullet and you can tell the difference when unlocking the bolt on a moly coated bullet versus a bare one. I think a lot of folks get better accuracy due to better bore/bullet alignment if the loaded ammo has a bit of undesired runout which gets somewhat straightened out when pushed to jam. That is my theory, anyway....
 
Jammings fine - until you have dud primer in the middle of a match. Then you know why I take a cleaning rod and a tin of compressed air to the line -when I'm RO.
 
I certainly will.
What is low E.S? Single? 10' 20's 30's etc.
Single figure ES's would be most people goal..
I used to chase that but I'm ok these days with sub 20fps in my f open guns..
My ES's tend to be mid teens..
Back in September before I went in hospital I tried some 195gr elite hunters in one of my saum's on N555.
I went by quickload for max grainage and at 600yds seated the 195s the same as my N165 load and they hammered and the ES was 8fps but only a small sample.
I've found a suitable alternative that's for sure.
 
View attachment 1726737@No i deer
This may be of interest to you, noting that not all combinations play the same but each of these four 500yard groups above have different amounts of neck tension.
This did not tell the entire story but did lead me to test a bit further.
That's interesting..
I try to make my load development less complicated by sticking with 1 neck tension mandrel and the same primers...
Component prices over here have got silly..
Bergers 7mm's are £100 plus a box approx
Primers £25 per 100 approx BR4's
Powder £115 per kilo approx N165
Brass is expensive too Lapua/Norma
 
That's the real problem isn't it? Small group size at 100 may not relate to small group at 600. But, small es may not relate to a small group at 600 either.
It’s the reason I spent just a little time at the 100 yard target and most of my time at the long distance target and I’m using the chronograph at both. I’m not going to test 100’s of rounds at the short distance just hoping that once I find that magic velocity that’s just about equal. My intention is to make small groups at long distance and the only way to assure that is to shoot the distant target. While a projectile should track the spread as distance increases, sometimes it doesn’t and I need the magic at the long target. I’ve had one hole 100 yard loads go to 1moa at 700 yards and 3/4 moa 100 yards loads go to 1/2 or smaller moa at 700 yards with “high” es and sd. Consistently. I shake my head at others that spend excess time at the short range when their goal is distance. I’m spoiled because I have a 700 yard range and a 100 yard that I shoot from inside my shop but I still used the same behavior before that was possible. I always loaded for long distance and I made sure my target was large enough to capture my bullets. I refined my equipment and skills to make everything work at distance. I always say to the hunters that if it’ll shoot 4 inch groups at 700 yards, it’ll always be a kill anywhere between you and 700 yards if I point it in the right direction. If it opens up to 1 inch at 100 yards it’ll still be better than 4 inches at 700 yards. A head shot is a head shot and I can get it between the distances.
 

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