Shooting a dead horse w a 30BR

[Andy Work]

I agree with 1and 2. Not three. I would need to see someone do jam by whatever method and get the same answer 3 times in a row. If you can good but twice I have had guys going to show me and Waugh, Wauugh, Wauuugh. Lol. If is works for you great.I like touch because I can see it, every time. You and I can compare with touch a1000 miles from each other. I don't believe we can with jam. Just my conviction.

I test for hard jam with five dummy rounds which always shows a few thousands variation. I choose the shortest one for my jam point. Not doing so would result in different seating depths.

 

[JEFFPPC]

I test for hard jam with five dummy rounds which always shows a few thousands variation. I choose the shortest one for my jam point. Not doing so would result in different seating depths.

As long as it works for you. All we need is a reference number to start the barrel off with. I think seeing a mark from the lands is the best way to go but there are often more than one way to reach an objective. I guess I don't use jam because if it shoots best with jam I will try HARD jam, and if its better, that is where I will be.

 

[jackieschmidt]

With my bullet/barrel/reamer combo, my 112 likes a little jump. How much exactly, I cannot say. But it is for sure not touching.

 

[Medic505]

All the guys that recommend jam don't mention that if you have to open the bolt with a loaded round you will probably dump powder all over the chamber and trigger area. Then your at the bottom of the list.

This is why I always carried a long nose lighter with the flexible snout in my range bag. A little soot is much better than a jammed-up bolt. And yes, it worked well the two times I used it.

 

[Bill Norris]

Never understood the concept of jam plus whatever thousandths.
Someone want to clarify that with a repeatable measurement? Because jam seems to indicate it won't move any further unless I don't understand English.

I agree100%. Just touch plus whatever thousandths I can understand that simply because it is not jammed. It is only entering into the lands which will provide a space before jamming.

 

[Silo1616]

With my bullet/barrel/reamer combo, my 112 likes a little jump. How much exactly, I cannot say. But it is for sure not touching.

This is surprising, I've never heard anyone admit to jumping a 30BR.

 

[jackieschmidt]

Ed and I both do, as we shoot the exact combination. I have tried about everything, and I avoid arguing with the target.

And I never change it. Well, maybe never. If I looked up and happen to see the Four Horseman of The Apocalypse coming over the Burm, I might be tempted.

This is surprising, I've never heard anyone admit to jumping a 30BR.

 

[shoot4fun]

Ed and I both do, as we shoot the exact combination. I have tried about everything, and I avoid arguing with the target.

And I never change it. Well, maybe never. If I looked up and happen to see the Four Horseman of The Apocalypse coming over the Burm, I might be tempted.

I have always put you in the "unconventionally conventional" but conventionally unconventional" category.
Not sure if you are eclectic or eccentric .
It was not being concerned with what's new but what works for you. I admire that!

 

[Mark W]

I agree100%. Just touch plus whatever thousandths I can understand that simply because it is not jammed. It is only entering into the lands which will provide a space before jamming.

It sounds like we are just using words differently. I have always used touch as my constant (at least until it moves), jam as anything deeper than touch, and jump as how far I am away from touch. I have certainly never thought of it jam as absolute maximum distance possible into the lands. I may have it almost wrong, but I suspect I’m not the only one. FWIW, I usually find my happy place a few thousandths from touch in either direction.

 

[Bill Norris]

It sounds like we are just using words differently. I have always used touch as my constant (at least until it moves), jam as anything deeper than touch, and jump as how far I am away from touch. I have certainly never thought of it jam as absolute maximum distance possible into the lands. I may have it almost wrong, but I suspect I’m not the only one. FWIW, I usually find my happy place a few thousandths from touch in either direction.

Yea, I think we are too. Initially, when working with a new load that I know nothing about I normally start with a low to mid powder charge with around .010 in from just touch to find the max. charge and back down a grain and then use that as max. for the load work-up. I then follow the development pattern that Tony Boyer introduced with several increments of powder .2 gr. apart and several increments of seating depth .002 apart to find the best pattern of both all on one target as Bart Sauter showed me some time back. It works well for me.

 

[Kevin1990]

Mine shoots excellent and about the same at .03 in from touch and right at touch. I load em right at touch, because Ive had to extract one or two and the powder will go everywhere, even if I'm careful. That being said, I don't compete, so it's not the end of the world for me either way. I've honestly never tried more than .01 from touch, seeing some of the responses on here, I may just do that.

When I was doing load development

 

[shoot4fun]

Yea, I think we are too. Initially, when working with a new load that I know nothing about I normally start with a low to mid powder charge with around .010 in from just touch to find the max. charge and back down a grain and then use that as max. for the load work-up. I then follow the development pattern that Tony Boyer introduced with several increments of powder .2 gr. apart and several increments of seating depth .002 apart to find the best pattern of both all on one target as Bart Sauter showed me some time back. It works well for me.

Name dropper!

 

[Bill Norris]

Name dropper!

Yea hope he don't beat me up. LOL.

 

[shoot4fun]

Yea hope he don't beat me up. LOL.

Oh he won't do that. Probably send you a dollar for the social media influencing!

 

[Bill Norris]

Oh he won't do that. Probably send you a dollar for the social media influencing!

LOL

 

[Andy Work]

I agree100%. Just touch plus whatever thousandths I can understand that simply because it is not jammed. It is only entering into the lands which will provide a space before jamming.

I like to know where first touch is and where jam (the bullets are pushed into the case) is and I'll test within that range. One 6PPC barrel likes .002" into the lands, and another likes .018" into the lands, which is .002" off jam.

 

[Homerange]

Learn me if you would please:
Does jam and no turn necks accomplish a similar thing ?
Achieving best bullet alignment with the bore......

 

[AlNyhus]

You need to consider the bullet shape and throat angle when talking about sticking a bullet if you have to open the bolt. At the same distance past the 'T.P.' (touch point) a 7 ogive bullet in a 1.5 degree throat will act a lot different than a 10 ogive bullet will. And both of those will be different in a 1.75 degree throat.

Next, how many lands and how wide are they? How much neck tension? Is the bullet coated or not?

The term 'jam' is so often misued as to be meaningless except to the individual referencing it....even people that understand the term explain it differently.

Seating depth is a huge part of tuning. And it's also the #1 thing that most get wrong and/or don't really know where the bullet is in relationship to the rifling. The 'T.P.' method for each bullet used is accurate, repeatable, reliable and easy to understand.

For seating depth on a .30, I simply start out with the bullet .030-.040 past the T.P. with a neck bushing .004 under what the the neck measures over a seated bullet. Go up with the powder until it shoots. Then back up the seating depth .005 at a time and repeat. Pick the seating depth the target shows that your combination likes. Then, if you like, back off the neck tension .001 at a time and see what happens.

There's no magic in this approach...just a basic understanding of what's going on. There's no shortcuts...test your stuff.

 

[Bill Norris]

You need to consider the bullet shape and throat angle when talking about sticking a bullet if you have to open the bolt. At the same distance past the 'T.P.' (touch point) a 7 ogive bullet in a 1.5 degree throat will act a lot different than a 10 ogive bullet will. And both of those will be different in a 1.75 degree throat.

Next, how many lands and how wide are they? How much neck tension? Is the bullet coated or not?

The term 'jam' is so often misued as to be meaningless except to the individual referencing it....even people that understand the term explain it differently.

Seating depth is a huge part of tuning. And it's also the #1 thing that most get wrong and/or don't really know where the bullet is in relationship to the rifling. The 'T.P.' method for each bullet used is accurate, repeatable, reliable and easy to understand.

For seating depth on a .30, I simply start out with the bullet .030-.040 past the T.P. with a neck bushing .004 under what the the neck measures over a seated bullet. Go up with the powder until it shoots. Then back up the seating depth .005 at a time and repeat. Pick the seating depth the target shows that your combination likes. Then, if you like, back off the neck tension .001 at a time and see what happens.

There's no magic in this approach...just a basic understanding of what's going on. There's no shortcuts...test your stuff.

How many shots and what charge increments are you firing in the group when you say "go up with powder til it shoots" please?

 

[AlNyhus]

How many shots and what charge increments are you firing in the group when you say "go up with powder til it shoots" please?

Bill, I do three shot groups going up in .3 gr. increments. But you can make a case for .5 gr. increments, too. With the short range of weights from min-max in a 30BR, .3 gr increments gets me the info I need with fewer shots after it's all said and done. Once a three shot group looks good, I jump right to seven or 10 shots.

One of the best 30BR shooters and tuners I know does .5 gr. increments.