What makes a powder not shoot good

[Wolfdog91]

Sorry getting a little frustrated and also genuinely curious
So what exactly makes a powder just not shoot good groups ?
I have this can of BL-2 that I've tried in a few different calibers and rifles and for the life of me I cannot get it to shit a good group regardless of the bullet case ect ,if I use BLC-2 it seems a a good bet I'm gonna be looking at 2" groups at best . The crazy thing is though , the numbers will be good ! Like I've had multiple loads with S-D's of less then 12fps and velocities in the same ball park or matching a 3/4" MOA load with another power. Aaannnnnd they still shoot like crap with this powder so.... Idk what's the deal? How can a power just not work ?
I get it if the velocities where wildly different or something but when you can basically match everything...

 

[Liven The Dream]

wrong application?

 

[SSL]

Sorry getting a little frustrated and also genuinely curious
So what exactly makes a powder just not shoot good groups ?
I have this can of BL-2 that I've tried in a few different calibers and rifles and for the life of me I cannot get it to shit a good group regardless of the bullet case ect ,if I use BLC-2 it seems a a good bet I'm gonna be looking at 2" groups at best . The crazy thing is though , the numbers will be good ! Like I've had multiple loads with S-D's of less then 12fps and velocities in the same ball park or matching a 3/4" MOA load with another power. Aaannnnnd they still shoot like crap with this powder so.... Idk what's the deal? How can a power just not work ?
I get it if the velocities where wildly different or something but when you can basically match everything...

Caliber, bullet weight and style, bore condition and etc?
My only experience with BLC2 was years ago in a .222 and was a disaster. Pressure peaked way too early and was inconsistent.

 

[RED DIRT]

It`s like trying to come up with a better tasting meal. It only gets better when everything works, together. Follow the recipe`s, then fine tune it to your own taste buds.

 

[ELR LVR]

Sorry getting a little frustrated and also genuinely curious
So what exactly makes a powder just not shoot good groups ?
I have this can of BL-2 that I've tried in a few different calibers and rifles and for the life of me I cannot get it to shit a good group regardless of the bullet case ect ,if I use BLC-2 it seems a a good bet I'm gonna be looking at 2" groups at best . The crazy thing is though , the numbers will be good ! Like I've had multiple loads with S-D's of less then 12fps and velocities in the same ball park or matching a 3/4" MOA load with another power. Aaannnnnd they still shoot like crap with this powder so.... Idk what's the deal? How can a power just not work ?
I get it if the velocities where wildly different or something but when you can basically match everything...

needs Specs on your caliber and setup, twist rate etc
Whatever caliber youre shooting, it's possible BLC-2 is too slow for your caliber
---------
That said,
Double check your rifle is thoroughly cleaned, scope base screws tight etc

 

[Larryh128]

Sorry getting a little frustrated and also genuinely curious
So what exactly makes a powder just not shoot good groups ?
I have this can of BL-2 that I've tried in a few different calibers and rifles and for the life of me I cannot get it to shit a good group regardless of the bullet case ect ,if I use BLC-2 it seems a a good bet I'm gonna be looking at 2" groups at best . The crazy thing is though , the numbers will be good ! Like I've had multiple loads with S-D's of less then 12fps and velocities in the same ball park or matching a 3/4" MOA load with another power. Aaannnnnd they still shoot like crap with this powder so.... Idk what's the deal? How can a power just not work ?
I get it if the velocities where wildly different or something but when you can basically match everything...

It more than likely is the primer, a lot of ball powders are harder to ignite. I've seen this several times that it just needs a hotter primer, ie magnum. A primer switch took exactly the same 2" load to a sub 1/2 inch load.

 

[Wolfdog91]

Well like I've said I've tried it in a few different calibers already. My 17-5.56 , three different.223/5.56's all 1:7-1:8 twists 16-20" barrels 69-55 GR bullets and some more caliber I can quite remember.

All I know is I can have a load world up that shoots to wear I'm happy march that with bl-C 2 and now I got a soup sandwich of a group

 

[Larryh128]

I know several people who use BL-C2 in their 223 loads with mag primers and good accuracy.

 

[Wolfdog91]

I know several people who use BL-C2 in their 223 loads with mag primers and good accuracy.

And that's another thing . I've messed with some powders that a lot of folks swear up and down are the best things ever for a given caliber and bullet range .
" O yeah all my x shoot y amazing!"
Then when I they it just poor performance. I'm starting to think it's got something to do with the high humidity down here or something.

But anyhow idk it's really messing with my brain.if I'm able to basically copy a load get the same velocity ranges same bullet same case why isn't it shooting? I mean could the powder be causing more flowing ? Or unequal gas dispersion at the muzzle or something that makes the bullet go this way or that ?

 

[ELR LVR]

All the calibers you listed here
W-748 is my go to for them
have you tried that powder?
Accurate in everything from .17 Rem to 22-250
-----------------------------------------
2 inch groups....if everything else is in order, sound more like the barrel could be worn out
(Not stablizing, or bullet stripping through the rifling)

 

[Gary in MD]

If I had a powder that just wasn’t working for me…. I’d just move on. There’s just too many options out there to waste time with something that isn’t working.

 

[dthomas]

Just matching velocity from one load to another using different powders usually won't work. The 2 powders will have completely different pressure curves.

 

[Highpower-FClass]

Sorry getting a little frustrated and also genuinely curious
So what exactly makes a powder just not shoot good groups ?
I have this can of BL-2 that I've tried in a few different calibers and rifles and for the life of me I cannot get it to shit a good group regardless of the bullet case ect ,if I use BLC-2 it seems a a good bet I'm gonna be looking at 2" groups at best . The crazy thing is though , the numbers will be good ! Like I've had multiple loads with S-D's of less then 12fps and velocities in the same ball park or matching a 3/4" MOA load with another power. Aaannnnnd they still shoot like crap with this powder so.... Idk what's the deal? How can a power just not work ?
I get it if the velocities where wildly different or something but when you can basically match everything...

I have tried quite a few different powders for 223 over the years, for many different bolt and gas guns, and extruded powders have always yielded better results than ball powders in terms of accuracy.

BLC-2 specifically yielded phenomenal velocities but mediocre accuracy the times I tried it. Had 2 lbs, used the opened can for plinking ammo and sold the other one.

 

[ebb]

The guy that taught me to reload told me to find a reloading manual that list loads with the pressure that hey produce. He said to pick a powder based on the highest speed shown with the lowest pressure. Find the 2 or 3 powders that best do that, and you will have the best powder , you just need to test to see which of the 2 or 3 it is. I don't know if this is true but everything else, he told me is so I don't doubt it at all.

 

[ELR LVR]

BLC-2 in my experience, is better for something like a 22BR / 22-250
moreso than .223

 

[joshb]

1- It’s you.
2- It’s your gun.
3- It’s your bullet.
4- It’s your scale.
5- It’s your brass prep.
6- It’s your primer.
7- It’s your C. O. L.
8- It’s your bullet/powder combo choice.
9- It’s your scope.
10- It’s the wind.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

I suggest that W748 and BLC-2 are twins anyway - so a change would only be a batch difference. I have never been a fan, but I am aware that 748 always needed a hot primer to get it shooting. It was my go-to powder in the 303 for a while, and a lot of TR shooters were using it in the days before Varget.

I suggest that, not knowing what you are shooting etc, that you move to a single base powder, Varget or H4895, a good primer, and work up your loads using a known overall length, using the ladder method.

 

[K22]

In my experience, ball powder is more sensitive to slight changes in charge, primer selection and temperature changes. In other words, it is sometime difficult to find the sweet spot (node in today's vernacular). BLC2 especially falls into this category.

However, some of my best groups were shot with H335 (ball) in the 223 Rem but I would get pressure surges in the field in 90+ degree weather. Remington 7 1/2 primers worked best for me with BLC2 in the 222. But my go to powder for the 222 as IMR 4198 (extruded powder).

Thus, I prefer extruded powders. They seem more forgiving both charge, primer selection and temperature. Powders I found that were very versatile over a range of cartridges are IMR 4895, H4895, IMR 4064 and Varget. I've used all of these quite successfully in 223, 22 250, 243, and 308's.

Assuming you choose a powder suitable (history of success) for the cartridge you are loading, the most significant component factor I found is the bullet selected.

 

[Wolfdog91]

On a side note apparently this gun just don't seem to like heavier bullets just three together something with the same everything but changed our to a Hornady 55gr sp and boom probably on of the best groups of if this thing to date.... Which is weird because it shot hornady 55gr hollow point frontier factory ammo best out of anything else.... Weird but ok I guess

 

[Wolfdog91]

All the calibers you listed here
W-748 is my go to for them
have you tried that powder?
Accurate in everything from .17 Rem to 22-250
-----------------------------------------
2 inch groups....if everything else is in order, sound more like the barrel could be worn out
(Not stablizing, or bullet stripping through the rifling)

All the calibers you listed here
W-748 is my go to for them
have you tried that powder?
Accurate in everything from .17 Rem to 22-250
-----------------------------------------
2 inch groups....if everything else is in order, sound more like the barrel could be worn out
(Not stablizing, or bullet stripping through the rifling)

Brand new barrel less then 150 Rd though it. Have tried 748 before not a fan