Weird load issue

[105gr]

By any chance is your Garmin mounted on the rifle?

No

 

[105gr]

Tell us about your gun.

1976 r700 BDL. Originally chambered in 243. Rebarreled to 6.5CM. Original stock thats pillar/glass bedded. Old Mark IV scope. 20MOA Nightforce unimount. Jewell trigger.

 

[105gr]

Figure out why the velocities are not consistent with the supposed charge weight.

Thats exactly my problem. In the charges that are consistent, I get ES's of 10-18. So I load that charge. (2660). Then it shoots those loads at 2755 with an ES of 30.

 

[105gr]

I never loaded for a particular fps. I just look for small round groups. For my varmint hunting rifles I would concider all your targets bad groups. I would look at the bench setup. Do you have good trigger release. How do you react to the gun recoiling. When my gun goes off I try to stay relaxed and don't move a muscle in my body. When the gun goes off can you see the cross hair move on the target? Describe the rifle. I don't use cheek weld, I think it adds one more variable. The stock butt should be in the hollow part of the shoulder and not touching the shoulder bone.

Works great until you shoot 1,000yds with ES of 40 and cant hit a 12" plate.

 

[fisherman987]

Thats exactly my problem. In the charges that are consistent, I get ES's of 10-18. So I load that charge. (2660). Then it shoots those loads at 2755 with an ES of 30.

When did you try that load again? Same day? Was the temperature the same both times you loaded that load? Did you use the same batch of powder both times? Same primers? What would really help me is if you could list every component and every thing you measure or check to make sure they are exactly the same in your reloading procedure. Then we can hopefully identify what needs to be checked for consistency to fix this. If you want to include measurements and how you obtain them, that could be useful as well.

 

[105gr]

When did you try that load again? Same day? Was the temperature the same both times you loaded that load? Did you use the same batch of powder both times? Same primers? What would really help me is if you could list every component and every thing you measure or check to make sure they are exactly the same in your reloading procedure. Then we can hopefully identify what needs to be checked for consistency to fix this. If you want to include measurements and how you obtain them, that could be useful as well.

I did not try that load again the same day. Testing was done between about 45F and 60F. Same batch of everything. StaBall, 144gr Berger, Fed210, Hornady brass, FL sized.

 

[David Christian]

@105gr Thanks for all the data you have provided so far. Let’s break this down one step at a time starting with brass prep. I assume the numbers on your target represent average speed and the ES for your 3 shot groups. i.e. 2668/67.

If that is correct, let’s dive into exactly what you do for brass prep. Please list before and after measurements, how you are getting those figures, which tools you are using, and what steps are in your brass prep process. Don’t overlook anything, give us exactly what you do with the brass from fired to loaded.

DC

 

[fisherman987]

I'm going to bow out of this one and let you and David work this out. He knows what he's doing, and I would focus in on his advice and work with him. Best of luck to you!

 

[105gr]

I'm going to bow out of this one and let you and David work this out. He knows what he's doing, and I would focus in on his advice and work with him. Best of luck to you!

Atleast keep following. I'm trying to soak in all the info I can. I'm not a new shooter or reloader, but I didn't have chrony info before and I wasn't loading to tolerances as tight before.

 

[Clancy]

I don’t know what your shooting ability is like, and I understand not everyone has the same just like running, lifting etc… but that target you posted looks like a broken scope, which is common. However, after reading farther, I noticed it’s a 76 model Remington. Was the ignition checked out? Firing pin spring replaced?

 

[105gr]

@105gr Thanks for all the data you have provided so far. Let’s break this down one step at a time starting with brass prep. I assume the numbers on your target represent average speed and the ES for your 3 shot groups. i.e. 2668/67.

If that is correct, let’s dive into exactly what you do for brass prep. Please list before and after measurements, how you are getting those figures, which tools you are using, and what steps are in your brass prep process. Don’t overlook anything, give us exactly what you do with the brass from fired to loaded.

DC

Deprime. Tumble. Anneal. Tumble. Resize. Trim. Prime. Charge. Seat.

I use the Hornady headspace comparitor and use brand new brass as "zero". Measure fired brass and some get as big as .004" bigger than new brass. I set the die so sized brass is set back to zero. Measure seating with the bullet/cartridge comparitor.

 

[105gr]

I don’t know what your shooting ability is like, and I understand not everyone has the same just like running, lifting etc… but that target you posted looks like a broken scope, which is common. However, after reading farther, I noticed it’s a 76 model Remington. Was the ignition checked out? Firing pin spring replaced?

Yes. brand new spring. Those 2755 loads actually shoot well. I just know I can do better. I took those loads to TVP and was shooting at 12" plates at 1,000yds. It grouped 3 shots in a row in the bottom right 6x6 quadrant of the plate in a 12mph right wind. The gun shoots. I can shoot. Its not the gun. Its not me. Its the loads. I just cant control the speed and make the loads shoot in the speed windows and I'm trying to figure out why.
Riddle me this: When you do load workup, do you do it the same way? When you see accuracy windows in the data do you load in that charge window and have 10 shots of that load shoot in the speeds you got during the workup test?

 

[ShtrRdy]

Was the 2660 in new brass ant 2755 in previously fired brass?

 

[105gr]

Was the 2660 in new brass ant 2755 in previously fired brass?

no

 

[Homerange]

Suspect the scale.
Double/triple check every throw.

 

[searcher]

If you are not able to replicate the velocity of a known load that is again loaded, there are a few things that come to mind. If using an electronic scale, some need to warm up for 1/2 hour before they stop "drifting". I'd turn your scale on and, immediately weigh a charge and set it aside. Then re-weigh that same charge 1/2 hour later. If they are different, that may be part of (if not entirely) the problem. If you changed your seating depth a lot, that will also noticeably change your velocity. I'd look at your primers to see if they are all getting equal strike patterns. If you are in fact loading exactly as you did before and your powder charges are confirmed as being "right on", the only other thing I can think of that might influence differences (in regard to the load itself) would be neck tension. Do you anneal before each firing?

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

The scale should be a random data point, as load charge is on and off desired charge weight. His targets show increasing velocity as groups are shot. Are you cleaning to bare metal bore and than shooting groups with no foulers? Easy checks, try a different primer. If same results change one step in your brass prep at a time. 1. Don't anneal a batch 2. No tumble(wipe case clean)with light neck brushing.
If you don't configure a testing method to isolate what you are doing during the loading process to cause the results you are seeing(you don't believe it is a rifle or shooter issue) you're just guessing at the fix.

 

[6.5 forever]

Hornady brass currently. Have used Starline also.
Barrel is 8T 28" but I cant remember what barrel we put on. Shillen? Bart? Not sure.
One specific load is in the pic. Thats 144gr Berger with StaBall.
I determined the windows by speed and group. The lowest ES/tightest groups are 2660/2780
I shoot prone on a bipod and bag. Testing is 100yds.

The first thing I did when I started shooting my 6.5 CM was get rid of the Hornady brass.

 

[R.Morehouse]

OAL of the brass may be a factor. If some are too long, it will cause all sorts of mayhem.

Regards
Rick

 

[Webster]

I have been beating my face against the wall trying to figure out this load thing. I have reached out to many people. I have read forums and watched vids. I have an issue that is not mentioned anywhere I have looked and most of the people I have reached out to don't respond. I have a 6.5CM. I have tried 3 different powders (4350, StaBall, H100V) and 4 different bullets (144gr Berger, 147gr ELD, 140gr ELD and 142gr SMK) and I get the same data patterns with every combo. Every powder/bullet shoots fine. In my OCW/ladder testing I get accuracy windows that are obvious. Here is the problem: When I load where the windows are the loads dont shoot in that window. EX- I have windows at 2660 and 2780. If I load for 2660 it shoots 2755. Why? I cant control where the speeds are. I see data patterns and load to hit somewhere in that pattern and it just wonders off. I'll post a pic of target from my phone in the next post.

How do you seat primers?