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TackDriver scopes used

I'm not sure objective lens size is the whole story when it comes to seeing bullet holes in extreme conditions when the mirage gets ridiculous.

Both the NF Comp and March 48HM have 30mm main tubes, the March 8-80 Majesta 34mm, and the Valdada Terminator is 40mm, from what I read.

The other day, I slid off a suspect Leupold Competition 40x with 30mm main tube, and slid an older 1 inch tube Leupold 36x BRD back on. The 36x was great with brightness, clarity, etc., but had quite a bit more mirage than the 40x even with the slight magnification decrease, at 100 yards. Maybe what I saw was a difference in lens coating, lens technology or maybe it's a byproduct of a larger main tube?
 
afrench said:
I'm not sure objective lens size is the whole story when it comes to seeing bullet holes in extreme conditions when the mirage gets ridiculous.

Both the NF Comp and March 48HM have 30mm main tubes, the March 8-80 Majesta 34mm, and the Valdada Terminator is 40mm, from what I read.

The other day, I slid off a suspect Leupold Competition 40x with 30mm main tube, and slid an older 1 inch tube Leupold 36x BRD back on. The 36x was great with brightness, clarity, etc., but had quite a bit more mirage than the 40x even with the slight magnification decrease, at 100 yards. Maybe what I saw was a difference in lens coating, lens technology or maybe it's a byproduct of a larger main tube?
Click to expand...
Yep
I have several 48x high masters as well as the MAJESTA and Sightron.
I end up screwing in a modifier disc in the objective pretty fast most days and that helps with mirage for a couple hours. I have wondered if even a smaller opening would help more later in the day
someone makes or used to make an adjustable modifier disc but I can’t remember now who
 
Tim Singleton said:
Yep
I have several 48x high masters as well as the MAJESTA and Sightron.
I end up screwing in a modifier disc in the objective pretty fast most days and that helps with mirage for a couple hours. I have wondered if even a smaller opening would help more later in the day
someone makes or used to make an adjustable modifier disc but I can’t remember now who
Click to expand...
Tim

You'll want to reach out to Carl Matthew or @glockaholic on here for his Mirage Buster if you're looking for an adjustable modifier disc. I know there are other successful systems in use, but telling you about the one I have experience with.

Here's video about it from @F Class John just in case.


Here's a thread with some more discussion about it.

Do aperture reducers work?

I don't post too many of my videos here but I know this topic goes around a lot and I thought people would be interested to see it. To keep it simple I was focused on the results in this video and not so much on the mechanics of why.
forum.accurateshooter.com
 
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Tim Singleton said:
Someone makes or used to make an adjustable modifier disc but I can’t remember now who
Click to expand...

Tim.....Simply cut your own discs from black card stock. With the
stock modifier in place, just slip your cut outs into that, then screw
down the sun shade to hold it in place. I've made them where I just
looked thru a 5/8" center hole. Kind of an old camera trick on hazy
bright days, when you just want to isolate the subject.......Cheap date
and nothing to lose.
 
Disclaimer: Doug is a personal friend of mine, and I did serve as an initial beta tester.

Looking at the group aggs and scores posted at this match, I'm concluding there's some really great condition reading going on already.

But, would a Wind Zero electronic wind sensor be allowed by this match's rules. https://windzero.store/

In my own experiences with using one oriented towards 1K FOpen goals, it's been an eye opening device (like a labradar or garmin for wind). It doesn't tell you where to hold per say, but if used as a training aid, can definitely help you learn more powerful and correct "instinctive wind intuition", and teaches you other valuable information such as learning wind patterns, help identifying when to shoot and not to shoot, and with enough practice at a location, help learn different ranges and there "-isms". As a technique I try to shoot over one everytime I shoot, even it's just to check a zero or smaller sample type testing. It's been eye opening to see how what I suspected was condition based, now I have another trend data point to confirm if it was or not.

Which leads to the next test. And then the next one ...

Probably one of the biggest eye openers, is this ultrasonic sensor has no latency, where as other conventional wind indicators such as NRA flags, mirage, dust from impact berms, vegetation, etc all have some element of lag or latency defined as from the point in time when the wind condition (build, letoff, direction change) is present and will alter bullet trajectory, and from the time it's actually visible using conventional wind indicators.

The WZ doesn't have this latency and helps a Competitor learn how chaotic and twitchy the "no shoot" conditions can be vs how steady and predictable the "go shoot" conditions can be.

If you're a fanatical last .01 of precision type tester, it can also help with test target interpretation, and learn when to throw a test session away and it needs a redo.

I've never shot over high quality BR flags, so maybe those are much more responsive, but I'd still suspect there's some amount of latency with those as well.
 
Last edited:
tvaught said:
Disclaimer: Doug is a personal friend of mine, and I did serve as an initial beta tester.

Looking at the group aggs and scores posted at this match, I'm concluding there's some really great condition reading going on already.

But, would a Wind Zero electronic wind sensor be allowed by this match's rules. https://windzero.store/

In my own experiences with using one oriented towards 1K FOpen goals, it's been an eye opening device (like a labradar or garmin for wind). It doesn't tell you where to hold per say, but if used as a training aid, can definitely help you learn more powerful and correct "instinctive wind intuition", and teaches you other valuable information such as learning wind patterns, help identifying when to shoot and not to shoot, and with enough practice at a location, help learn different ranges and there "-isms". As a technique I try to shoot over one everytime I shoot, even it's just to check a zero or smaller sample type testing. It's been eye opening to see how what I suspected was condition based, now I have another trend data point to confirm if it was or not.

Which leads to the next test. And then the next one ...

Probably one of the biggest eye openers, is this ultrasonic sensor has no latency, where as other conventional wind indicators such as NRA flags, mirage, dust from impact berms, vegetation, etc all have some element of lag or latency from where the wind condition (build, letoff, direction change) is present and will alter bullet trajectory, and from the time it's actually visible using conventional wind indicators.

The WZ doesn't have this latency and helps a Competitor learn how chaotic and twitchy the "no shoot" conditions can be vs how steady and predictable the "go shoot" conditions can be.

If you're a fanatical last .01 of precision type tester, it can also help with test target interpretation, and learn when to throw a test session away and it needs a redo.

I've never shot over high quality BR flags, so maybe those are much more responsive, but I'd still suspect there's some amount of latency with those as well.
Click to expand...
Interesting, Tim. I'm going to read up on this.

As to the rules for the TackDriver, I'll link the website here. It appears there are no electronic devices allowed on the bench or downrange for this particular match.
 
afrench said:
Interesting, Tim. I'm going to read up on this.

As to the rules for the TackDriver, I'll link the website here. It appears there are no electronic devices allowed on the bench or downrange for this particular match.
Click to expand...
I see that now. So it wouldn't be allowed at this Tournament. It's not allowed at NRA events either (for obvious reasons), but i knew @dskogman had sold a few to SR BR fellas and gotten feedback oriented towards there discipline so wasn't for sure about this Tournament.
 
Fuj said:
Tim.....Simply cut your own discs from black card stock. With the
stock modifier in place, just slip your cut outs into that, then screw
down the sun shade to hold it in place. I've made them where I just
looked thru a 5/8" center hole. Kind of an old camera trick on hazy
bright days, when you just want to isolate the subject.......Cheap date
and nothing to lose.
Click to expand...
How important is it , as you reduce to a minimal disc size to be optically centered at yardage being shot? Just because the disc is centered on objective..doesn't mean you are optically centered. Burris rings XTRs? Curious...
 
Tim Singleton said:
Yep
I have several 48x high masters as well as the MAJESTA and Sightron.
I end up screwing in a modifier disc in the objective pretty fast most days and that helps with mirage for a couple hours. I have wondered if even a smaller opening would help more later in the day
someone makes or used to make an adjustable modifier disc but I can’t remember now who
Click to expand...
Carl Matthews, i bought one and brought it to the TD but had not checked it, didn't fit, got with him yesterday and he is sending me the correct screw in part!
 
I've got filters and modifiers for the Sightron SV ED's and the only thing I've noticed was it reduces the brightness. If it's a bright day, they are useable on max power but the image is duller. Other than that, I see no advantage.SVED filters.jpg
 
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I don't doubt that some scopes may have a quality of glass that allows better resolution in some mirage conditions. Look at all newer professional astronomical telescopes built at some of the best observing condition in the world...Las Campanas, Mauna Kea, etc. they are at very high altitudes with generally a clear laminar air flow. Still, the new twist in these big telescopes is adaptive optics. They have the best glass quality in the world but still need mechanical pushers behind the mirrors that play off a laser shot high into the atmosphere to help quell "twinkling"....mirage. When there is lots of heat radiating from the ground, I mean lots, not much is going to help you other than momentary holes in the heat radiation.
 
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GPalman said:
I don't doubt that some scopes may have a quality of glass that allows better resolution in some mirage conditions. Look at all newer professional astronomical telescopes built at some of the best observing condition in the world...Las Campanas, Mauna Kea, etc. they are at very high altitudes with generally a clear laminar air flow. Still, the new twist in these big telescopes is adaptive optics. They have the best glass quality in the world but still need mechanical pushers behind the mirrors that play of a laser shot high into the atmosphere to help quell "twinkling"....mirage. When there is lots of heat radiating from the ground, I mean lots, not much is going to help you other than momentary holes in the heat radiation.
Click to expand...
IMG_0986.jpeg
This photo is standing on the berm where the tackdriver targets are placed and looking back to the firing line. You can see where the white sand in the soil has washed off the berm as well as the lack of grass on the range as a whole. Knowing that it had been dry there for a while, and that there was full sunshine for both days of competition , there was no doubt as to why the mirage was as bad as it was. A perfect storm of conditions. Now add that there was a north wind blowing both days (thats from about 3:30 to 4:00 over your right shoulder.) which causes swirls all down thru the range. Younger eyes, better scopes help some but nothing is going to overcome all that. The winner was shooting to my immediate left and basically shooting the same setup i was. I was pretty much shooting blind. My hat is off to him for his performance. A magnificent achievement for sure.
 
Bermuda grass seed, and lots of it. But it's expensive. Maybe
a St. Augustine grass ?? How about artificial turf ?? Anyone
friends with Elon Musk.....LOL
 
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