Action for new rifle

[SteveOak]

I am pondering a new rifle. No weight limit. 18 to 20 lbs is not a problem.

Is an aluminum action such as a Panda "the best" choice to use with a 26", 1.25" straight, untapered barrel?

Please note, I am not asking if it can be done, has been done, or will work. I am asking if it is the best choice or is there a reason to chose a steel action for a straight barrel?

Thanks!

 

[LuvDog]

What is the purpose of the build?

 

[jackieschmidt]

The Panda was originally conceived as a Short Range Benchrest Action, glue ins in particular. In this realm, it is absolutely one of the best.

If weight is of no concern, and you are planning on a straight profile barrel, I would go with a larger steel action such as a Bat M.

 

[OMW57]

I really like my Borden BRMXD with 1.250" straight barrel!

 

[SteveOak]

What is the purpose of the build?

I understand the question but it is not relevent to the discussion at hand, which is a mechanical strength question.

Either the Panda is completely up to the task of supporting a straight barrel or it is not.

 

[rjtfroggy]

Here is a novel idea. Call Kelby's and ask.

 

[One Eye Pete]

I built my F-Open rifle using a Kelbly F-Class Panda long action with a straight 1.25 32in long barrel and never looked back. I used the action for a number of reasons:
1. It has flat bottom and a lot of bedding area to support the heavy barrel
2. Being a long action it can easily handle a 284 Shehane cartridge with 184 Berger bullets seated way out.
3. Kelbly‘s has great customer service.
4. It uses a trigger hanger so I can adjust the firing pin fall / cock on close. Also having a trigger hanger it can be glued and screwed in, which I subsequently did.
5. It is smooth and light for its size.
6. I was able to find one in stock at Bugholes (Southern Precision Rifles)
Is it the BEST action for a straight heavy barrel? I don’t know the answer to that because the Borden BRMXD and Bat M are also great actions. But I can tell you that it works well with the heavy barrel and I have won a lot of club level matches with it. Right now it has a 31 in straight barrel chambered in 7-PRCW on it and on its first outing even a half blind dummy like me was able to win against some really good shooters.
For a 26 in heavy barrel you could easily go with the short action version of the Panda without a problem ..

 

[6BRA]

All aluminum is not the same. 60 series is bottom bucket. 70 series is leaps above 60. And then you have stuff like this that is the icing on the cake.

2000 Series Aluminum Alloys

2000 series of alloys are a set of hard alloys. The aluminum-copper alloys typically contain between 2 to 10% copper, with smaller additions of other elements.

www.ulbrich.com

For some reason my discussions with Kelblys makes me recall a 2200 series. I could be wrong.

2219 Aluminium | 2219 Aluminium Alloy

2219 aluminium alloy is readily weldable and offers good machinability. 2219 finds use in high-temperature structural applications.

www.smithmetal.com

 

[LVLAaron]

I understand the question but it is not relevent to the discussion at hand, which is a mechanical strength question.

Either the Panda is completely up to the task of supporting a straight barrel or it is not.

To answer your question without other commentary: There are a lot of F-Open rifles built on Pandas with 32 inch straight barrels.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I understand the question but it is not relevent to the discussion at hand, which is a mechanical strength question.

Either the Panda is completely up to the task of supporting a straight barrel or it is not.

Stick certainly thought so since he built probably dozens of straight long barrel bench guns on Pandas when I lived in Texas back in the day.

There are few in the picture.

 

[6BRA]

To answer your question without other commentary: There are a lot of F-Open rifles built on Pandas with 32 inch straight barrels.

Thus .......F Class Panda.
Kelbly will not recommend a glue in on a long straight 1.25 inch BBL. The weight of the barrel pulls against the action. They don't even like the idea below 26" in a straight 1.25 inch. They state damage to the stock can occur. Pillar/ BED only is their recommendation! Glue ins are for lighter weight/dia barrels.

 

[LVLAaron]

Thus .......F Class Panda.
Kelbly will not recommend a glue in on a long straight 1.25 inch BBL. The weight of the barrel pulls against the action. They don't even like the idea below 26" in a straight 1.25 inch. They state damage to the stock can occur. Pillar/ BED only is their recommendation! Glue ins are for lighter weight/dia barrels.

Fair, and good point.

 

[SteveOak]

Thus .......F Class Panda.
Kelbly will not recommend a glue in on a long straight 1.25 inch BBL. The weight of the barrel pulls against the action. They don't even like the idea below 26" in a straight 1.25 inch. They state damage to the stock can occur. Pillar/ BED only is their recommendation! Glue ins are for lighter weight/dia barrels.

Thanks @6BRA!

That information is the key to the answer.

Damage to the stock is an indicated the action is flexing due to the weight applied through the moment arm.

 

[johnnyi]

the current 1000 yard fclass record is Panda fclass action with straight 1.25 barrels. that combo has been responsible for many other records at one time or another. there are many Pandas on the line every week and every big match.

me personally I have not shot a panda with 1.25. but I have shot many .308 barrels HV tapers up to 34" up to and including shooting 215's.

 

[6BRA]

Thanks @6BRA!

That information is the key to the answer.

Damage to the stock is an indicated the action is flexing due to the weight applied through the moment arm.

No I don't see it that way. Not sure you would see the action flex. The stock flexing is another story.
My 30 inch Panda has no issues. The stock will flex with that much weight out front, no doubt. Aluminum may soften the vibration pulse as well.

 

[Rope2horns]

I am pondering a new rifle. No weight limit. 18 to 20 lbs is not a problem.

Is an aluminum action such as a Panda "the best" choice to use with a 26", 1.25" straight, untapered barrel?

Please note, I am not asking if it can be done, has been done, or will work. I am asking if it is the best choice or is there a reason to chose a steel action for a straight barrel?

Thanks!

Define "best"....If weight is an issue, yes an aluminum action could be considered "best". From a performance perspective you will be hard pressed to prove one is better than another with 30-32" barrels.

Some say aluminum has better dampening qualities over steel....again I'd say that will be hard to prove comparing one against the other.

 

[One Eye Pete]

My gun shot well with the heavy barrel when the long Panda was simply pillar bedded and bolted in. But it’s no fun if you can’t experiment. My short range 6ppc/30BR is a glue in Bat 3 lug and at short range it’s easily the most accurate gun I have. I guess the two main reasons for gluing the F-Class Panda action are to assure perfect bedding and to positively prevent anything (such as cleaning solution or oil) from getting under the action. I would NOT recommend gluing an action with a heavy 1.25 barrel without also having bolts and pillars. With the 3 bolts & pillars holding the Panda and the gluing it ain’t going anywhere. I have not noticed any problems with the stock (McMillian Kestros Z rail) with this arrangement however I also haven’t noticed increased accuracy but I’m still working on it.

 

[jackieschmidt]

All aluminum is not the same. 60 series is bottom bucket. 70 series is leaps above 60. And then you have stuff like this that is the icing on the cake.

2000 Series Aluminum Alloys

2000 series of alloys are a set of hard alloys. The aluminum-copper alloys typically contain between 2 to 10% copper, with smaller additions of other elements.

www.ulbrich.com

For some reason my discussions with Kelblys makes me recall a 2200 series. I could be wrong.

2219 Aluminium | 2219 Aluminium Alloy

2219 aluminium alloy is readily weldable and offers good machinability. 2219 finds use in high-temperature structural applications.

www.smithmetal.com

I always assumed that Kelbly used 7075 T-6.

 

[6BRA]

I always assumed that Kelbly used 7075 T-6.

I'm not positive but that was something that I discussed and it was a high grade aluminum they told me . The number 2200 stuck in my mind for some reason. 7075 is for sure hard and slick compared to 60 series. I could be wrong on my memory. I will ask again next time I talk to them. Which should be in next several days.

 

[AlNyhus]

Aluminum Rifle Actions - Kelbly Rifle Actions

Our Stolle line of actions are made of Aluminum and alloy steel, providing unmatched lightness and durability. Check out these precision actions today!

kelbly.com