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Best Practice for using Iosso Bore Cleaner?

An update. I only use IOSSO now for a really dirty bore as it seems to increase throat erosion a little.

Most of the time I use a tight bronze brush with KG-1 Carbon Cleaner, then follow up with a few patches of KG-12 Copper Cutter. When I need a heavy cleaning I use JB on a tight bronze brush after pushing a few patches of KG-1 though the bore.

This method takes only 20-30 minutes, doesn't require a hot bore, and looks good with both the borescope and on a 1000 yd BR target.

Same.

I know this is an old thread, but I'm starting to think even light IOSSO usage really accelerates wear.

I just had a barrel *speed up* 70fps at 2,000 rounds. I had cleaned it with IOSSO and borescoped it before confirming that speed up using both old ammo and new. Everything else kept same lot.

That makes my second barrel that lost competitive accuracy immediately following IOSSO usage.

I'm going to give less cleaning a try on my new tubes.
 
I know this is an old thread, but I'm starting to think even light IOSSO usage really accelerates wear.

Old thread or not Mike, I'm a firm believer in refreshing some information again as needed. This thread is one of those which covers an enormous amount of information which can be used continuously by us, the shooters. I have found that due to the amount of information covered in threads such as this, I need to keep better track of this information to apply to my practices. Sometimes there's just too much information to memorize so I have to re-read these threads in order to stay on top of the findings. I now keep a notebook of some of the threads printed out which is faster than trying to remember where a particular thread is hiding. ;):)
 
Same.

I know this is an old thread, but I'm starting to think even light IOSSO usage really accelerates wear.

I just had a barrel *speed up* 70fps at 2,000 rounds. I had cleaned it with IOSSO and borescoped it before confirming that speed up using both old ammo and new. Everything else kept same lot.

That makes my second barrel that lost competitive accuracy immediately following IOSSO usage.

I'm going to give less cleaning a try on my new tubes.
What did the velocity do after a few/several shots?
 
What I am at this point is confused:confused: Some say use abrasive cleaners--some say not. Some say use abrasive cleaners on a bronze brush--a top barrel maker and gunsmith say it will ruin barrels. Some say not to use brushes at all. Then I bought a borescope. Now I'm scared on top of being confused. Rant over. Carry on
 
What I am at this point is confused:confused: Some say use abrasive cleaners--some say not. Some say use abrasive cleaners on a bronze brush--a top barrel maker and gunsmith say it will ruin barrels. Some say not to use brushes at all. Then I bought a borescope. Now I'm scared on top of being confused. Rant over. Carry on

Most any method will work if used thoughtfully and consistently. Figure out what you like to do and ignore everyone else.
 
What did the velocity do after a few/several shots?

It never settled back down after 40 rounds. It kept at ~2700FPS.

Here's some background leading me to my 'suspicion' that IOSSO, even in limited quantities, can hurt a barrel. I'm also not trying to make any profound statements here; merely sharing observations & my own speculation.

A couple of key things to get out of the way.
  • I use IOSSO fairly conservatively; usually one patch worth and ~10-15 back and forth strokes per ~250ish rounds (on average). I never put it on a brush (of any kind), and I always run a ton of butches soaked patches afterwards to ensure I remove it. I'll even pull the boreguide and mop the chamber area.
  • I own a borescope. The reason I used IOSSO is because it removes carbon better than anything out there.
  • All of the components in my loads are the same lot, across both of these barrels. Same lot of powder, same lot of bullets, all the barrels are cut from the same reamer. N150 powder/200.20x bullets.

So.... lets begin.

Barrel 1: 30" Kreiger on my FTR gun. Barrel is the most accurate I've ever owned. When I was finished load deving it was holding 1/4 MOA at 300 for 20 rounds. Crazy accurate.

This was probably the first barrel I'd started using IOSSO in. I had previously been using JB, and found IOSSO to be significantly more effective on the borescope. That said, the barrel abruptly died on me at ~800-900 rounds, and I couldn't tune it back in. It went from shooting insanely well, to struggling to hold the 9 ring at 1k in calm conditions.

The last match I shot, I recall after the last string letting an observer take several shots with my rifle. Probably 10-15 after I'd just finished shooting my 20 for record. I do remember him doing quite well with the rifle. I think he only dropped a point from the shots he fired? Basically...it was still shooting well.

I couldn't really make heads or tails of this barrel abruptly dying. I didn't think putting ~45 rounds on the barrel in relatively quick succession would kill a tube (because I do shoot long strings regularly...I shoot a lot of sighters).

I chalked it up to "I guess Krieger had a bad batch of steel or something." or "maybe I should be more careful with cleaning". Regardless, a new barrel fixed it.

Barrel 2: 30" Brux on my FTR gun. Barrel isn't the most accurate in load dev, but it's the most consistent by far. I think it shot at least one clean at every 1k match I entered it in (with exception to the last), it got me an honest LR HM card shooting an FTR gun. The barrel was good. It was tuned in at 2640FPS 44.4gr of N150.

It had shot really well for the duration of the gun. I didn't log using any abrasives until about the 1200 round mark.

That said, for the last ~3 matches I'd been shooting V2 qualifiers, and as a result had been shooting ~120-140 rounds per match. Because of this increased round count, and the extended barrel life, I started using IOSSO every time I was cleaning the gun (lets just call it from round 1500-2000 it was getting IOSSO).

For the first V2 match it hammered; shot a personal best 597-something x. Second V2 match, 592-something x, third match I could absolutely tell accuracy was falling off; it was still competitive, but X counts were lower than most others. Shot a 589 low 20s X.

At the end of this last match, there were also two observers/new guys who I offered to let shoot after we'd concluded our pair firing v2 strings. They each shot ~7-10 rounds, and they cleaned the target lol.

I take the gun home, clean it like normal, and take it out to see how it looks at 300 yards, and to run it across a chronograph.

To my surprise it's running 2700-2710, and continues to do so for like 40 more rounds. It's putting up .8 MOA of vertical at 300. Yikes.

That day I also brought with me my secondary FTR rifle (it's identical to my primary), and it's got a Krieger screwed onto it (same chamber). The Krieger is running 44.6gr (so .2gr higher) and it's running 2660 across the same chronograph, in the same temps.

I decide to just replace the Brux because it's really not worth dumping another ~$150 worth of components trying to retune a barrel with 2000 rounds on it.

Summary:
Those two experiences lead me to believe IOSSO might be damaging my barrels. It could also be me letting new shooters put rounds on my gun immediately following strings. I'm not real sure. What I am sure of is I'm not going to be using IOSSO in my TR guns for a bit, just to see if the behavior is any different.

While thinking through this, I've also never observed a TR barrel lose accuracy (at least accuracy that matters in F-Class) due to carbon. I'm planning to continue with aggressively brushing/butches (and maybe some BoreTech Cu for copper), but I'm going to give the abrasives a rest; I'm not sure they're needed for what I'm doing.

And now you know, the rest of the story...

Edit: Also not trying to scare anyone here. [obama voice] If you like your IOSSO, you can keep your IOSSO[/obama voice]. I'm also not advocating anyone change their routine. I'm confident there are better shooters than me who love the stuff.

That said, I've done quite a bit of reading on this topic, and I believe I saw Alex Wheeler mention he stopped using it due accuracy concerns. After reading that, along with my own observations listed above, I'm just trying something new.
 
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It never settled back down after 40 rounds. It kept at ~2700FPS.

Here's some background leading me to my 'suspicion' that IOSSO, even in limited quantities, can hurt a barrel. I'm also not trying to make any profound statements here; merely sharing observations & my own speculation.

A couple of key things to get out of the way.
  • I use IOSSO fairly conservatively; usually one patch worth and ~10-15 back and forth strokes per ~250ish rounds (on average). I never put it on a brush (of any kind), and I always run a ton of butches soaked patches afterwards to ensure I remove it. I'll even pull the boreguide and mop the chamber area.
  • I own a borescope. The reason I used IOSSO is because it removes carbon better than anything out there.
  • All of the components in my loads are the same lot, across both of these barrels. Same lot of powder, same lot of bullets, all the barrels are cut from the same reamer. N150 powder/200.20x bullets.

So.... lets begin.

Barrel 1: 30" Kreiger on my FTR gun. Barrel is the most accurate I've ever owned. When I was finished load deving it was holding 1/4 MOA at 300 for 20 rounds. Crazy accurate.

This was probably the first barrel I'd started using IOSSO in. I had previously been using JB, and found IOSSO to be significantly more effective on the borescope. That said, the barrel abruptly died on me at ~800-900 rounds, and I couldn't tune it back in. It went from shooting insanely well, to struggling to hold the 9 ring at 1k in calm conditions.

The last match I shot, I recall after the last string letting an observer take several shots with my rifle. Probably 10-15 after I'd just finished shooting my 20 for record. I do remember him doing quite well with the rifle. I think he only dropped a point from the shots he fired? Basically...it was still shooting well.

I couldn't really make heads or tails of this barrel abruptly dying. I didn't think putting ~45 rounds on the barrel in relatively quick succession would kill a tube (because I do shoot long strings regularly...I shoot a lot of sighters).

I chalked it up to "I guess Krieger had a bad batch of steel or something." or "maybe I should be more careful with cleaning". Regardless, a new barrel fixed it.

Barrel 2: 30" Brux on my FTR gun. Barrel isn't the most accurate in load dev, but it's the most consistent by far. I think it shot at least one clean at every 1k match I entered it in (with exception to the last), it got me an honest LR HM card shooting an FTR gun. The barrel was good. It was tuned in at 2640FPS 44.4gr of N150.

It had shot really well for the duration of the gun. I didn't log using any abrasives until about the 1200 round mark.

That said, for the last ~3 matches I'd been shooting V2 qualifiers, and as a result had been shooting ~120-140 rounds per match. Because of this increased round count, and the extended barrel life, I started using IOSSO every time I was cleaning the gun (lets just call it from round 1500-2000 it was getting IOSSO).

For the first V2 match it hammered; shot a personal best 597-something x. Second V2 match, 592-something x, third match I could absolutely tell accuracy was falling off; it was still competitive, but X counts were lower than most others. Shot a 589 low 20s X.

At the end of this last match, there were also two observers/new guys who I offered to let shoot after we'd concluded our pair firing v2 strings. They each shot ~7-10 rounds, and they cleaned the target lol.

I take the gun home, clean it like normal, and take it out to see how it looks at 300 yards, and to run it across a chronograph.

To my surprise it's running 2700-2710, and continues to do so for like 40 more rounds. It's putting up .8 MOA of vertical at 300. Yikes.

That day I also brought with me my secondary FTR rifle (it's identical to my primary), and it's got a Krieger screwed onto it (same chamber). The Krieger is running 44.6gr (so .2gr higher) and it's running 2660 across the same chronograph, in the same temps.

I decide to just replace the Brux because it's really not worth dumping another ~$150 worth of components trying to retune a barrel with 2000 rounds on it.

Summary:
Those two experiences lead me to believe IOSSO might be damaging my barrels. It could also be me letting new shooters put rounds on my gun immediately following strings. I'm not real sure. What I am sure of is I'm not going to be using IOSSO in my TR guns for a bit, just to see if the behavior is any different.

While thinking through this, I've also never observed a TR barrel lose accuracy (at least accuracy that matters in F-Class) due to carbon. I'm planning to continue with aggressively brushing/butches (and maybe some BoreTech Cu for copper), but I'm going to give the abrasives a rest; I'm not sure they're needed for what I'm doing.

And now you know, the rest of the story...

Edit: Also not trying to scare anyone here. [obama voice] If you like your IOSSO, you can keep your IOSSO[/obama voice]. I'm also not advocating anyone change their routine. I'm confident there are better shooters than me who love the stuff.

That said, I've done quite a bit of reading on this topic, and I believe I saw Alex Wheeler mention he stopped using it due accuracy concerns. After reading that, along with my own observations listed above, I'm just trying something new.

For me it was more throat erosion than normal in a 6 BRA. I wondered if it could be due to IOSSO, and then @Alex Wheeler and many other 1k BR shooters told me they had experienced the same thing.

IOSSO is still the fastest way to clean out a really nasty barrel.
 
Try mixing a tube of Iosso paste with 2oz of their triple action oil and use by stroking bore with patch. Using an Iosso brush is also very effective. Dry patch and follow with alcohol on patch. Check it with your bore scope, it's very effective...I follow with Patch Out and Accelarator and allow to sit overnight. Copper and carbon gone....
 
Try mixing a tube of Iosso paste with 2oz of their triple action oil and use by stroking bore with patch. Using an Iosso brush is also very effective. Dry patch and follow with alcohol on patch. Check it with your bore scope, it's very effective...I follow with Patch Out and Accelarator and allow to sit overnight. Copper and carbon gone....
When you mix the whole tube of Iosso and the oil together, does it store well for a period of time in a jar?
 
A couple of IOSSO anecdotes: A friend who was competing in short range group benchrest, shooting LT32 which makes a little hard carbon, got to a point where the hard carbon, seen after regular cleaning with a good bore scope, was negatively affecting his accuracy. No liquid that he tried would touch the stuff, and so he finally realized that he had to do something if he wanted to be competitive. Taking my advice he filled up a soft black nylon brush with IOSSO and short stroked the barrel with it in the area where the scope had shown the hard carbon. Concerned that he might wear the throat with this procedure, he carefully measured the touch point several times with a Hornady tool. After getting all of the hard carbon out and thoroughly washing out the barrel with patches and solvent, as per my instructions, he remeasured for touch, and it had not changed at all.
After that the barrel returned to its previous competitive level of accuracy. It was a 6PPC.

Perhaps I should mention that I learned how to use IOSSO from reading an interview of Tony Boyer, published many years back in Precision Shooting Magazine. In that interview Tony said that he used IOSSO between every match, after his regular bronze brush, patches and solvent and cleaning, short stroking in the back 8 to 10" of the barrel, paying more attention to the throat. At the time I wondered why he did this, since I had had no problems with hard carbon shooting 133, but later I realized that at the time of the interview he was exclusively shooting that lot of surplus 8208 that became known as T powder, which I had discovered was sort of the opposite of 133 when it came to fouling.

Another friend who shot LT32, on my advice followed the same procedure, only about every 100 rounds, since that powder is not all that bad about hard carbon but will accumulate some, and he got good results that way including a normal accuracy life from several 6PPC barrels.

When I use that method, I use a lot of solvent and patches to make sure that all of the IOSSO is removed.....a lot.
 
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A couple of IOSSO anecdotes: A friend who was competing in short range group benchrest, shooting LT32 which makes a little hard carbon, got to a point where the hard carbon, seen after regular cleaning with a good bore scope, was negatively affecting his accuracy. No liquid that he tried would touch the stuff, and so he finally realized that he had to do something if he wanted to be competitive. Taking my advice he filled up a soft black nylon brush with IOSSO and short stroked the barrel with it in the area where the scope had shown the hard carbon. Concerned that he might wear the throat with this procedure, he carefully measured the touch point several times with a Hornady tool. After getting all of the hard carbon out and thoroughly washing out the barrel with patches and solvent, as per my instructions, he remeasured for touch, and it had not changed at all.
After that the barrel returned to its previous competitive level of accuracy. It was a 6PPC.

Perhaps I should mention that I learned how to use IOSSO from reading an interview of Tony Boyer, published many years back in Precision Shooting Magazine. In that interview Tony said that he used IOSSO between every match, after his regular bronze brush, patches and solvent and cleaning, short stroking in the back 8 to 10" of the barrel, paying more attention to the throat. At the time I wondered why he did this, since I had had no problems with hard carbon shooting 133, but later I realized that at the time of the interview he was exclusively shooting that lot of surplus 8208 that became known as T powder, which I had discovered was sort of the opposite of 133 when it came to fouling.

Another friend who shot LT32, on my advice followed the same procedure, only about every 100 rounds, sinc that powder is not all that bad about hard carbon but will accumulate some, and he got good results that way including a normal accuracy life from several 6PPC barrels.

When I use that method, I use a lot of solvent and patches to make sure that all of the IOSSO is removed.....a lot.
who makes the soft nylon brushes
 
If you went to benchrest match and surveyed the shooters what percentage do you think would say they used a paste cleaner? And how often they used it what would The majority say
 
If you went to benchrest match and surveyed the shooters what percentage do you think would say they used a paste cleaner? And how often they used it what would The majority say
Jack Neary, every relay. This is only one that I know of. I watched it on Erik Cortina's Interview with him. I don't want to say that Speedy does for sure.....
 
I'm very confused as to how using IOSSO to clean could cause the bore to open up AND cause the barrel to speed up? When barrels give up the ghost, I've always seen them slow down.
 
Good read. The oz links don't come in for me but that may be good thing.
After reading I feel the need to slice my rig in half long ways and send pics to the author of, fifty years of bad bore cleaning lol.
 
I'm very confused as to how using IOSSO to clean could cause the bore to open up AND cause the barrel to speed up? When barrels give up the ghost, I've always seen them slow down.
Not opening up. Smoothing, causing more surface contact, raising pressure to create more velo. Can’t get velo without pressure. Open up would reduce pressures, lowering velo.
 

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