CCI Federal Sold

[L.Sherm]

Remington is a totally different situation. It was bought and rolled up by a private equity firm who's entire business model is acquiring and squeezing companies and then flipping them for a profit. Often, these ivy leaguers have no idea how to actually run a business outside of financially engineering it, and it showed with Remington. Vista was the beneficiary of that mistake.

With this deal, the ammunition business is being sold to another company who makes ammunition because Vista is worth more split up than it is kept together. It's a totally different type of transaction. I'm not concerned in the least, although I do feel for Remington employees who probably feel like they're getting jerked around quite a bit lately.

Selling U.S company's to foreign company is never a good thing no matter how much foo foo you wanna put on it

 

[Flouncer]

The CCI plant in Lewiston is not a multi billion dollar multinational operation. It may be mired down in the merger purchase quagmire but like Speer at inception and when it made it's way into profitability it was localized and locally managed. There is zero, nothing gained in their case by corporate acquisition and management.

 

[Cecil S.]

Anything foreign owned in this country is negitive in my book. Just sayin.

 

[dcali]

Selling U.S company's to foreign company is never a good thing no matter how much foo foo you wanna put on it

Welcome to the world of global finance. There are very few major companies without foreign ownership or operations. That includes gun companies like Ruger, Smith & Wesson, Olin (Winchester), Nammo (Berger) and Vista (RCBS, Weaver, Hoppes, etc.). There are probably a bunch more. This is a transfer of assets owned by global investors (Vista) to a Czech company that runs American businesses.

That has been the case for decades - there's no avoiding it.

 

[dcali]

The CCI plant in Lewiston is not a multi billion dollar multinational operation. It may be mired down in the merger purchase quagmire but like Speer at inception and when it made it's way into profitability it was localized and locally managed. There is zero, nothing gained in their case by corporate acquisition and management.

Where do you think the capital comes from to run that plant? You think shortages are bad now, see what happens when you take access to cheap financing away.

 

[Tommie]

Would anybody be surprised if the new owner milked the last bit of value out of the brands name recognition and reputation and reduced quality little by little until there’s nothing left other than a discount brand?

So the American holding companies haven’t done the same?

 

[Bluequail48]

Anything foreign owned in this country is negitive in my book. Just sayin.

I second that Brother

 

[TaperPin]

So the American holding companies haven’t done the same?

Everybody does it. Anytime a good company is bought I worry about it.

What has surprised me is how many “American” companies are foreign owned. One of the great weaknesses of our laws governing corporations is we are kept in the dark as to who owns what. I set up a meeting with a Scandinavian company to purchase a small American company, owned by another American company, which is owned by a Japanese company. The only thing American about any of it was the building happened to be on American soil - neither the Japanese nor the Scandinavian companies gave two shts about anything other than the output going directly to their home countries. Labor was all from Central America.

Even corporate farming has increasing amounts of foreign money flowing into it - autocrats, oligarchs, and trust fund billionaire babies from around the world have to secretly put their money in various places to keep it safe from those who can take it. I sound like a conspiracy nut, but unfortunately this is nothing we all don’t already know, and accept.

 

[marty flood]

Surprised no one is mentioning the pro 2A SCOTUS decisions the past year have made the Fed Gov (Yes incl 99% of the GOP as well), nervous about independent citizenship. Despite Uncle Joes remarks that they have jets, and such. Pretty sure the "Police Actions" were told the same thing as they withstood the onslaught of American weaponry until the military pulled out. Imagine if they didn't have to rely on the ATF, IRS, and other ghost agencies to do their anti 2A work. Now all they have to do is ban certain Countries exports or tax them so high they charge crazy amounts of $$ for little to nothing. No more ammo, components or scary "assault" weapons, except for the ones Baldwin uses.

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

Primers ARE in SHORT Supply ( THIS,.. IS,.. the "Big Deal" ), as usually plenty of Brass and Powder, is available,..
Solution,.. Have, a Couple of the Larger, Ammo / Bullet making Suppliers get together, start a NEW Primer company and, HIRE the Primer Experts from CCI / Federal or, Olin and Sell / Give, Stock to Employee's and, the PUBLIC aka, US,.. the End Users ! Primers at, $50- $60 per Thousand, would make Money,.. IMO
This AIN'T,.. "Rocket fuggin', Science" !!!

 

[L.Sherm]

Welcome to the world of global finance. There are very few major companies without foreign ownership or operations. That includes gun companies like Ruger, Smith & Wesson, Olin (Winchester), Nammo (Berger) and Vista (RCBS, Weaver, Hoppes, etc.). There are probably a bunch more. This is a transfer of assets owned by global investors (Vista) to a Czech company that runs American businesses.

That has been the case for decades - there's no avoiding it.

Did I say I didn't know it, I said its not a good thing and I dont like it.
But I'm sure as HELL not gonna throw perfume on it

 

[cmysix]

we know, your about two weeks late, good thing your not the point man.

 

[dcali]

Even corporate farming has increasing amounts of foreign money flowing into it - autocrats, oligarchs, and trust fund billionaire babies from around the world have to secretly put their money in various places to keep it safe from those who can take it. I sound like a conspiracy nut, but unfortunately this is nothing we all don’t already know, and accept.

It's not even a secret - that money is legally and openly invested in all kinds of companies. It's not to hide it, it's just to make more money. A huge number of silicon valley startups are significantly funded by a single Russian billionaire (Yuri Milner), including some big ones - Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, Snapchat, Airbnb, Spotify. The Saudis have money sloshing all over the place. Hedge funds, private equity, venture capitalists, real estate funds, and buyout shops take their money, pension money, union money, rich guy money, all kinds of money and put it into American and foreign companies. Every public company is in all kinds of funds that are owned by all manner of people, foreign and domestic. It's just modern business. Anything of any size will have foreign money involved, directly or indirectly.

 

[TaperPin]

Very true - all of it. However, the idea this is simply how things work nowadays does not address the downside of foreign billionaires having this kind of control, and ability to influence our country’s direction. Saudi Arabia doesn’t own a good chunk of professional golf and twitter out of a simple love of the game and social media. There are 1000, maybe 10,000 or more, similar stories going on out of sight. We’re handing over keys to the country and saying, “Thank you can I have another.” Modern colonization.

Billionaires, American or not, spend a very large amount of money influencing law makers and getting us to believe questionable sides of issue to get those lawmakers elected. Does anyone actually believe the billionaires give a darn about the issues they want us to fight for? Politics 101 is get a large number of people to rally behind a cause and get someone elected, then pass the laws those with deep pockets really want them to work on.

When anything happens, I follow the money and look at who benefits, then it’s easier to understand the motivations and valuations.

Edit: I’m one little guy from a tiny town in the middle of nowhere, yet I personally have met two guys from nondescript corporations with no history and very large checkbooks and pockets full of nondisclosure agreements. I thought the “name your price” scene in the movies was just in the movies. To bring this full circle back to guns, one coworker that signed a NDA said he also needed his propane tank filled and a new Browning BLR lever action 308 - that amount was added on the spot. Lol

 

[Flouncer]

Where do you think the capital comes from to run that plant? You think shortages are bad now, see what happens when you take access to cheap financing away.

Bison I'll admit I never understood how these enterprises work and fund their operations. They have to operate at a profit. If they cant, they go belly up. SO they are marginal, they just get every month ? Their product, the Lewsiton plant makes primers. No new rocket science, no perceived need for "capital" in my eyes. Admittedly ignorant eyes but I dont see a stable solid product requiring capital. Revenue yes. If you or I run low on funds, we dont sell ourselves and put our family at risk by going into debt or running on borrowed money. I understand that "raising capital" means selling stock or such but I cant see it being sustainable.

 

[bozo699]

Bison I'll admit I never understood how these enterprises work and fund their operations. They have to operate at a profit. If they cant, they go belly up. SO they are marginal, they just get every month ? Their product, the Lewsiton plant makes primers. No new rocket science, no perceived need for "capital" in my eyes. Admittedly ignorant eyes but I dont see a stable solid product requiring capital. Revenue yes. If you or I run low on funds, we dont sell ourselves and put our family at risk by going into debt or running on borrowed money. I understand that "raising capital" means selling stock or such but I cant see it being sustainable.

The Lewiston plant makes a lot more than primers. Many times in the last few years that I know of for a fact they have used every primer they could produce in there own products “pistol Ammunition “ surplus is sold to the public, also when I first started there they made most everyone’s Rimfire ammo plus there own brand plus all the bullets they make . Why they sold I don’t know but it wasn’t because they weren’t making money. They may have claimed a loss covering for some other part of the company but there making money. The were hiring sign hasn’t came down since the idiot took office.

Wayne

 

[MTSLW]

At least it's the Czechs, out of all the Europeans they are some of the best. Very pro American and not afraid to stand up for themselves.

 

[L.Sherm]

Thats like saying atleast we got Biden and not Harris.

 

[dcali]

Bison I'll admit I never understood how these enterprises work and fund their operations. They have to operate at a profit. If they cant, they go belly up. SO they are marginal, they just get every month ? Their product, the Lewsiton plant makes primers. No new rocket science, no perceived need for "capital" in my eyes. Admittedly ignorant eyes but I dont see a stable solid product requiring capital. Revenue yes. If you or I run low on funds, we dont sell ourselves and put our family at risk by going into debt or running on borrowed money. I understand that "raising capital" means selling stock or such but I cant see it being sustainable.

You're right that if you have a company that is profitable, well managed, and does not want to expand, then you will not need continuous financing. That's not most companies though, and hopefully not ammunition manufacturers today - expansion is badly needed in the industry. And that expansion is very capital intensive - it's not practical to just save up until you can afford new equipment. If you want to produce more soon, you're going to need outside capital.

Think of the stock and debt as the two pillars of capital that finance any company. You can borrow money and pay interest (debt), or you can sell future profits (stock). Either way, money ultimately gets sucked out of the company. So if you have an employee owned company with no debt, 1000 employees, and it's worth a 100 million dollars, that means every employee owns $100,000 worth of stock. That's $100k that needs to be making a return, and could be making 5% in a money market right now. More in some more risky assets like stock mutual funds. Plus, they'll want even more return since they have so many eggs in that basket. You also have the problem of what happens when you hire someone (will they have to buy in?) or someone leaves (are they forced to sell and suffer the tax consequences?). Whether or not that makes sense depends on the specifics of the company.

Since future profits are accounted for (why would an employee want stock that isn't paying them and can't be sold at a profit?), growth will require outside investment. You need to grow the company somehow - either by selling more stock or borrowing more money.

That's a bit of an oversimplification, but it gets the gist across. When a company makes money, it has to go somewhere - either dividends, reinvestment (hopefully leading to higher future dividends), or debt service. Where you want it to go depends on many factors, but it will change depending on business conditions.

 

[dcali]

The Lewiston plant makes a lot more than primers. Many times in the last few years that I know of for a fact they have used every primer they could produce in there own products “pistol Ammunition “ surplus is sold to the public, also when I first started there they made most everyone’s Rimfire ammo plus there own brand plus all the bullets they make . Why they sold I don’t know but it wasn’t because they weren’t making money. They may have claimed a loss covering for some other part of the company but there making money. The were hiring sign hasn’t came down since the idiot took office.

Wayne

I think it's safe to assume that the Czechs could make more off the company than Vista, so it was worth more to them. Happens all the time. Whether or not that's actually true remains to be seen.

Google bought YouTube for $1.6B. YouTube was not worth more to its owners than that and they were happyt to take it, but Google had the means to get so much more out of it and thought it was a good deal. It was one of the most profitable corporate mergers I've ever heard of. It seemed absurdly overvalued at the time because people were just looking at YouTube's profitability as a stand alone company, but Google made a a massive fortune with it almost immediately. like $20B+ in revenue *each year* now. In hindsight, they *grossly* underpaid.