Are Ranks of Shooters Growing or Shrinking?

[M-61]

Bring what on exactly?

The HOST of reasons you felt like holding back on.

Your post # 119 in case you forgot

 

[Ccrider]

It doesn’t take long to get to 50 does it!

Nope. Just wait til you get 60+.

 

[Wolfdog91]

The HOST of reasons you felt like holding back on.

Your post # 119 in case you forgot

Ok level with me here. With the knowledge I'm 25 I've only been shooting since I was like 8 ,only have 6yr of military service, I don't shoot matches , I don't have any fancy bench rest stuff ( hell 90% of my stuff probably cost less then one scope on most of your rigs ) or trophies or anything to "prove my worth" , honestly what is gonna come out my mouth that 70% of the people here will take semi seriously or find any worth in ? Seriously say I typed up say a 8 paragraph essay on the ins and out of stuff , in reality how my people are gonna do more then go " who the hell is this snot nosed brat trying to tell me I'm wrong ?" Because imma be honest every time I've legitimately tried to have a conversation dealing with somthing like this it's almost ALWAYS ended up the same . Hence me saying I kinda know where this kinda conversation goes. And no that not me being combative. Honestly me and a large majority of my generations gun culture just plain isn't interested in trying to have these conversations anymore because we know the outcome and it's just not worth the mental strain and re reading the same cookie cutter comments about how weak and stupid our generation is or how we're a bunch of sissies so on and so forth. Heck most of us just really don't care anymore goes in one ear and out the other and we just kinda go off and do our own thing .
Anyhow

 

[M-61]

I will reply but I just had company arrive.
I won’t let this go until I have responded. That will be tomorrow.
I’d rather respond than have the company
Oh yeah, you don’t have to ask me to be honest….. that’s a fault I have and usually doesn’t attract people.

 

[Wolfdog91]

I will reply but I just had company arrive.
I won’t let this go until I have responded. That will be tomorrow.
I’d rather respond than have the company
Oh yeah, you don’t have to ask me to be honest….. that’s a fault I have and usually doesn’t attract people.

Honesty is the best policy and I respect it

 

[Evan]

I’m the statistician at the CRC 1k BR club. When Jerry started MD there, he needed help, particularly with scoring, and I had the skillset to help. I have since had my first son and it’s amazing what happens to your free time, money, and spare mental capacity when raising children. I won’t cast stones at the mothers and fathers in their 30s and 40s, just trying to keep it all together.

I don’t think many folks under 50 will read this thread and think that this seems like a friendly and welcoming place for people in their age group.

 

[ballisticdaddy]

I don’t think many folks under 50 will read this thread and think that this seems like a friendly and welcoming place for people in their age group.

I am in my 50's and have to fully agree with this statement, this thread was about growing or shrinking rank of shooters but somehow turned into an age dispute!

 

[Ccrider]

I am in my 50's and have to fully agree with this statement, this thread was about growing or shrinking rank of shooters but somehow turned into an age dispute!

You are having trouble putting all together. Let me help. Participation is shrinking because us shooters over 50 are Dicks to new and young shooters.

 

[David Milisock]

You are having trouble putting all together. Let me help. Participation is shrinking because is shooters over 50 are Dicks to new and young shooters.

But younger shooters are not dicks to older shooters?

 

[David Milisock]

I’m the statistician at the CRC 1k BR club. When Jerry started MD there, he needed help, particularly with scoring, and I had the skillset to help. I have since had my first son and it’s amazing what happens to your free time, money, and spare mental capacity when raising children. I won’t cast stones at the mothers and fathers in their 30s and 40s, just trying to keep it all together.

I don’t think many folks under 50 will read this thread and think that this seems like a friendly and welcoming place for people in their age group.

Could it be that the younger generation are too sensitive and insecure?

 

[Eagle Six]

I have refrained from commenting on this topic (although have read every post) simply because I don't directly participate in organized civilian competitive shooting sports. But, now that the conversation seemed to have slipped I'm ready for an opinion.

Generation gaps apparently have settle into the topic as it will on most topics, has in the past, and will in the future. When I was a wee kid I remember the elders complaining how the country has gone to the dogs and children don't know squat. Now many of my generation are saying pretty much the same thing. And, if I were a gabbling man I would win when saying those younger kids are going to be saying the same tune when they get into their senior years.

I started shooting scatter guns and 22 RF rifles when I was 8. Many times my father questioned my understanding of targets both paper and live. I think I gave him the correct answer as I never got slapped over them! Back then, through the years, and today, I understand the value of paper and use those targets regularly. However, what tickled me the most as a wee tot and still today are action targets.

I have heard it many times the youth just wants instant gratification. I would agree, that is what I enjoyed the most and continue to enjoy. This was enjoyment was re-enforced when I was employed as a shooter and I shot to live. What I wanted was the instant gratification of the target going down and staying down. I shoot for fun now, but I enjoy shooting at moving targets, being on the move, or see a registered hit without the aid of electronics or spotters. I'm not talking run and gun, at least not all the time. The action may be slow, it may be fast, it may be a combination.

Some folks my age seem to forget what it was like to be a kid. and, here is the hook you have been waiting for....the sports will die a painful death if young folks are not brought into it at the very earliest stages in their lives. I didn't make that up, others have said it, but that is were the sport longevity is located. If you want to grow whatever shooting sport is of interest, get the kids involved at a young age and let them express their likes and dislikes. They will follow the path of their interest. Some will go 3 gun and run and gun, some will go long distance, others will go tiny little groups. Each sport has an investment in kids and they will seek out their advantage as they develop through life.

When I meet and talk with a 5 year old I first get on my knee(s). Just because they are a no nothing little brat kid doesn't mean they are brain dead or they have nothing of value to ask. I want to get on their physical level and really communicate. I want to listen to them and I want them to listen to me. It appears there may be some folks hear that are not listening to each other, lots of talk, not much listening! Then there are others here that see the issues and are making progress in a positive manor. And, of course there are the younger generation that thinks they know it all, the old folks haven't a clue, and are bound to learn the hard way. It's kind of comical actually.

If I have bored you to tears I apology and understand, as I get bored easily and I'm about bored to tears myself. Just one more thought. Whether you are in your 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's or like me older than dirt, please remember regardless of what you think the fact is our future and the shooting sports depend of the little people that need our guidance.

 

[David Milisock]

I have refrained from commenting on this topic (although have read every post) simply because I don't directly participate in organized civilian competitive shooting sports. But, now that the conversation seemed to have slipped I'm ready for an opinion.

Generation gaps apparently have settle into the topic as it will on most topics, has in the past, and will in the future. When I was a wee kid I remember the elders complaining how the country has gone to the dogs and children don't know squat. Now many of my generation are saying pretty much the same thing. And, if I were a gabbling man I would win when saying those younger kids are going to be saying the same tune when they get into their senior years.

I started shooting scatter guns and 22 RF rifles when I was 8. Many times my father questioned my understanding of targets both paper and live. I think I gave him the correct answer as I never got slapped over them! Back then, through the years, and today, I understand the value of paper and use those targets regularly. However, what tickled me the most as a wee tot and still today are action targets.

I have heard it many times the youth just wants instant gratification. I would agree, that is what I enjoyed the most and continue to enjoy. This was enjoyment was re-enforced when I was employed as a shooter and I shot to live. What I wanted was the instant gratification of the target going down and staying down. I shoot for fun now, but I enjoy shooting at moving targets, being on the move, or see a registered hit without the aid of electronics or spotters. I'm not talking run and gun, at least not all the time. The action may be slow, it may be fast, it may be a combination.

Some folks my age seem to forget what it was like to be a kid. and, here is the hook you have been waiting for....the sports will die a painful death if young folks are not brought into it at the very earliest stages in their lives. I didn't make that up, others have said it, but that is were the sport longevity is located. If you want to grow whatever shooting sport is of interest, get the kids involved at a young age and let them express their likes and dislikes. They will follow the path of their interest. Some will go 3 gun and run and gun, some will go long distance, others will go tiny little groups. Each sport has an investment in kids and they will seek out their advantage as they develop through life.

When I meet and talk with a 5 year old I first get on my knee(s). Just because they are a no nothing little brat kid doesn't mean they are brain dead or they have nothing of value to ask. I want to get on their physical level and really communicate. I want to listen to them and I want them to listen to me. It appears there may be some folks hear that are not listening to each other, lots of talk, not much listening! Then there are others here that see the issues and are making progress in a positive manor. And, of course there are the younger generation that thinks they know it all, the old folks haven't a clue, and are bound to learn the hard way. It's kind of comical actually.

If I have bored you to tears I apology and understand, as I get bored easily and I'm about bored to tears myself. Just one more thought. Whether you are in your 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's or like me older than dirt, please remember regardless of what you think the fact is our future and the shooting sports depend of the little people that need our guidance.

I for one am seriously interested in what the younger shooters want. However the younger shooters in the ranges I've worked with had little consideration for the constraints that the range worked within.

An example are safety considerations, suburban, rural and deep country ranges have different considerations.

At one range the board has decided that the range will not open on Sundays until the morning service is over at a church 1/2 mile away.

As another example would be the tactical training, it's easy for a round to leave the range so it's a critical amount of planning. At one rang a cop launched a 9MM off the range 1/2 mile later it landed on the farmers porch.

Also the younger generations love of gadgets, (force multipliers) the older generation did the same job with iron sights. Just like the special forces of WWll, Korea and Vietnam did the same job as today, but WITHOUT body armor.

The facts which the younger generation ignore because it's convenient is that when you study Taliban vs U.S. forces engagements it's clear that it's the same situation as it was in WWII, Korea, Vietnam. It's superior firepower, air and artillery support that decides many evenly numbered engagements, not force multipliers. I just watched an evenly numbered engagement between the Taliban and the U.S.. The U.S. guys all had force multipliers, the Taliban AK47's, the same as Vietnam. Stalemate until air support came. There are hundreds upon hundreds of examples of this.

The old guys know how to handle rifles and are willing to impart the information if the young guys can open their mind, (not be so sensitive, grow a pair) to learn something. An example is Hop from TFB (the firearm blog) he went through dot magnifiers and base zero. It's the same as iron sights except the iron sights are for more durable so old guys see the truth. Yes if your untrained the dot is easier to hit with but for the trained there are more disadvantages than advantages.

The old guys need to see this disparity in concepts and adapt if they want to attract younger shooters, the young guys need to nut up.

I think the young guys would like to learn how to use low tech to take advantage of the weakness of not only the high-tech but the sloppiness it imparts into those who rely on it incorrectly. Learn how to think differently to defend their home, the MIND is the force multiplier.

 

[jackieschmidt]

In my home Club at Tomball Tx, I have no problems at all with the “younger generation”. (I’m 76).

In the past few years, we have had quite a few get accepted into the club. Many are veterans of one of the Gulf Wars. Most are professional individuals, their preference in shooting usually is in the realm of PRS or one of the other Disciplines that require a certain amount of physical ability combined with field marksmanship.

Most seem to be fascinated with what I do, and I admire them for their successes, even though there might be 40 years difference in our ages.

I think we approach each other from an aspect of mutual respect.

 

[David Milisock]

In my home Club at Tomball Tx, I have no problems at all with the “younger generation”. (I’m 76).

In the past few years, we have had quite a few get accepted into the club. Many are veterans of one of the Gulf Wars. Most are professional individuals, their preference in shooting usually is in the realm of PRS or one of the other Disciplines that require a certain amount of physical ability combined with field marksmanship.

Most seem to be fascinated with what I do, and I admire them for their successes, even though there might be 40 years difference in our ages.

I think we approach each other from an aspect of mutual respect.

Good, as long as I don't have to nurture them, usually most veterans are good to go. I'm not their mother so no cushy BS.

 

[ISS]

I have a precision air rifle, an FX Panthera in 22 caliber. I shoot the H&N heavy slugs, $14 per tin of 200 40gr slugs. Total cost, and an indoor range just 8 minutes from my driveway, five days a week.
Like many, I cannot/will not pay $125 or more for a thousand primers, then the $60+ for most powders.
I am checking out on powder burners.

ISS

 

[Eagle Six]

I for one am seriously interested in what the younger shooters want. However the younger shooters in the ranges I've worked with had little consideration for the constraints that the range worked within.

An example are safety considerations, suburban, rural and deep country ranges have different considerations.

At one range the board has decided that the range will not open on Sundays until the morning service is over at a church 1/2 mile away.

As another example would be the tactical training, it's easy for a round to leave the range so it's a critical amount of planning. At one rang a cop launched a 9MM off the range 1/2 mile later it landed on the farmers porch.

Also the younger generations love of gadgets, (force multipliers) the older generation did the same job with iron sights. Just like the special forces of WWll, Korea and Vietnam did the same job as today, but WITHOUT body armor.

The facts which the younger generation ignore because it's convenient is that when you study Taliban vs U.S. forces engagements it's clear that it's the same situation as it was in WWII, Korea, Vietnam. It's superior firepower, air and artillery support that decides many evenly numbered engagements, not force multipliers. I just watched an evenly numbered engagement between the Taliban and the U.S.. The U.S. guys all had force multipliers, the Taliban AK47's, the same as Vietnam. Stalemate until air support came. There are hundreds upon hundreds of examples of this.

The old guys know how to handle rifles and are willing to impart the information if the young guys can open their mind, (not be so sensitive, grow a pair) to learn something. An example is Hop from TFB (the firearm blog) he went through dot magnifiers and base zero. It's the same as iron sights except the iron sights are for more durable so old guys see the truth. Yes if your untrained the dot is easier to hit with but for the trained there are more disadvantages than advantages.

The old guys need to see this disparity in concepts and adapt if they want to attract younger shooters, the young guys need to nut up.

I think the young guys would like to learn how to use low tech to take advantage of the weakness of not only the high-tech but the sloppiness it imparts into those who rely on it incorrectly. Learn how to think differently to defend their home, the MIND is the force multiplier.

I respect that you have an opinion and I will continue to read it with enthusiasm. My opinion is a bit different. I don't think kids and older teens and many in their 20's and 30's that have not been in the military are interested in shooting if they have to study the Taliban vs U.S. Forces or understand combat differences between WWII, Korea, Vietnam or the Middle East. If they wish to study history and current events I would encourage that, but not make it a prerequisite to be recognized as a valuable member of the shooting fraternity. Perhaps I am reading your words wrong, but you make reference to fighting, combat, and defense in a lot of your post.

Make shooting hard work and no play and there will be few interested. Make it enjoyable and those who take a serious interest will voluntarily invest with hard work to attain their goals.

If it's a safety issue it needs to be addressed and from my perspective the youth do not have a corner on poor safety conduct, that award goes equally to all age groups. Public, private, and club ranges are all part responsible and from what I have seen many have woefully failed in that respect. Certainly not all, but many. Safety starts on the home court and when we see a safety violation as leaders, after making the correction, we need to seriously consider if we have made a failure. Many times I have seen those responsible for safety blame only the violator.

As for high tech, it's here to stay. Yes the ability to perform the old way certainly has value, but between all the wars you have made an example it was high tech that paved the way to victory being pushed by determined blood and guts. Kids today grow up with high tech, but to them it is not high tech, it's just normal stuff, why not use it to trap their interest?

As for the monetary investment being to extreme for some of the younger men and women, that is understandable in most all sports and what we have to face in everyday life. So maybe a youngster cannot afford to compete in F Class or Benchrest with the top shooters. Maybe they can enjoy shooting a pistol or a carbine or a rimfire, and maybe as they grow up and build their career they can afford better equipment. Make it enjoyable and attainable on any of the many levels and a certain percentage will take to playing games and some will make a competition out of it, and from that you have a new competitor.

 

[hpshooter]

Nope. Just wait til you get 60+.

Or 76.

 

[Big_Daddy]

You are having trouble putting all together. Let me help. Participation is shrinking because us shooters over 50 are Dicks to new and young shooters.

Not at our range.
Attitudes are not tolerated.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Nope. Just wait til you get 60+.

There.

 

[ronsatspokane]

Ok level with me here. With the knowledge I'm 25 I've only been shooting since I was like 8 ,only have 6yr of military service, I don't shoot matches , I don't have any fancy bench rest stuff ( hell 90% of my stuff probably cost less then one scope on most of your rigs ) or trophies or anything to "prove my worth" , honestly what is gonna come out my mouth that 70% of the people here will take semi seriously or find any worth in ? Seriously say I typed up say a 8 paragraph essay on the ins and out of stuff , in reality how my people are gonna do more then go " who the hell is this snot nosed brat trying to tell me I'm wrong ?" Because imma be honest every time I've legitimately tried to have a conversation dealing with somthing like this it's almost ALWAYS ended up the same . Hence me saying I kinda know where this kinda conversation goes. And no that not me being combative. Honestly me and a large majority of my generations gun culture just plain isn't interested in trying to have these conversations anymore because we know the outcome and it's just not worth the mental strain and re reading the same cookie cutter comments about how weak and stupid our generation is or how we're a bunch of sissies so on and so forth. Heck most of us just really don't care anymore goes in one ear and out the other and we just kinda go off and do our own thing .
Anyhow

We older folks find that content free screeds such as this are the norm for many (not all) younger folks who have been challenged to engage. The inability of younger folks to present logical arguments is most definitely an indictment of our educational systems. Now please share your preferred pronouns with us.

By the way, I'm just a kid myself. TMSAISTI.